Here's an idea that just popped into my head after NANOG. Lets assume for a moment that the majority of route instabilty is coming from inexperienced providers. With that assumption in hand I propose the following incentive: Finanical compensation for bgp dampening policies. Deep pockets = very little flap penalty Shallow pockets = very heavy flap penalty Also, make the assumption that inexperienced providers arn't going to be able to pay for light flap penalties. So their only choice is to be stable or die. I havn't thought about how or where such a policy would be applied, but the underlying idea would help fix the problem of routing instabilty. I know this one is out there, but I just thought I'd mention it. Scott -- smace@neosoft.com - KC5NUA - Scott Mace - Network Engineer - Neosoft Inc. Any opinions expressed are mine.