Compared to the old model of just providing coverage, it's definitely higher density. I think the point I was trying to make is that the old high density is the new normal, and what most on list would consider high density is more along the lines of stadium wireless. I wouldn't really focus on the term too much, though. It's just a distraction from the real question. The answer as always is "it depends". Without detailed floor plans, survey information, and information on what kind of demand users will place on the network, there is really no way to tell you what solution will work well. If you need to service residential areas or hostel units you might be better off looking at some of the newer AP designs that have come out in the last year or so targeting that application, like the Cisco 702 or the Xirus 320. The general design of these units is that they're both a low-power AP and a small switch to provide residents with a few ports to plug in if they need to. This allows you to have one cable drop to each room instead of having to run separate jacks for APs and wired connections. The units are wall-mount and if you have a challenging RF environment this design can be really effective. I've never run Xirrus personally, but I think they were used for the last NANOG conference. On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 6:41 AM, Sina Owolabi <notify.sina@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks everybody. I've been corrected on density... I've been informed that it's to be a minimum of 1000 users per building. That's 8,000 users. (8 buildings, not counting walkways and courtyards, admin, etc.) Does this qualify as high-density?
On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:33 AM Ray Soucy <rps@maine.edu> wrote:
Well, I could certainly be wrong, but it's news to me if UBNT started supporting DFS in the US.
Your first screenshot is listing the UAP for 5240 which is channel 48, U-NII-1. The second show 5825 which is the upper limit of U-NNI-3. I don't see any U-NII-2 in what you posted.
This forum post may be a bit out of date, but I haven't seen any announcement or information on the forums to indicate the situation has changed, and I'm pretty good at searching:
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/DFS/m-p/700461#M54771
From this thread it looks like the ability to configure DFS channels in the US was a UI bug and only showing for ZH anyway. IIRC they actually got in a bit of trouble with the FCC over not restricting the use of these channels enough.
Regardless of whether or not the FCC has cleared UBNT indoor products for U-NII-2 and U-NII-2-extended (and I haven't seen evidence of that yet), until you can configure APs to use those channels in the controller without violating FCC regulations I don't consider them usable.
The UAP-AC doesn't seem to support DFS channels at all even without FCC restrictions, which kind of kills the point of AC, only 4 x 40 MHz or 2 x 80 MHz channels doesn't cut it when we're talking about density.
Note we're talking about indoor wireless and there ARE some UBNT products for outdoor WISP use that do support DFS and have been cleared by the FCC, but we would only be looking at the UAP-PRO or UAP-AC in this case so maybe that's the point of confusion here.
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal@snappytelecom.net
wrote:
FCC Cert claims different.
:)
Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support@Snappytelecom.net
------------------------------
*From: *"Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net> *Cc: *"NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org>, "Ray Soucy" <rps@maine.edu> *Sent: *Friday, June 19, 2015 9:16:37 PM
*Subject: *Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network
setup?
Uhm he's not wrong...
Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Jun 19, 2015 9:13 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal@snappytelecom.net> wrote:
>The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they don't support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for 5 GHz.
Huh ????
Please verify your facts before making blanket statements which are not accurate ...
Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom
From: "Ray Soucy" <rps@maine.edu> To: "Sina Owolabi" <notify.sina@gmail.com> Cc: "nanog@nanog.org list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 7:07:01 PM Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?
I know you don't want to hear this answer because of cost but I've had good luck with Cisco for very high density (about 1,000 clients in a
auditorium actively using the network as they follow along with the presenter).
The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they don't support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for 5 GHz. That's pretty significant because you're limited to 9 x 20 MHz channels or 4 x 40 MHz channels. Keeping the power level down and creating small cells is essential for high density, so with less channels your hands are really tied in that case. Also, avoid the Zero Handoff marketing nonsense
----- Original Message ----- packed they
advertise; I'm sure it can work great for a low client residential area but it requires all APs to share a single channel and depends upon coordinating only one active transmitter at a time, so it simply won't scale.
I don't have experience with other vendors at large scale or high density.
I don't think what you're talking about is really high density anymore though. That's just normal coverage. Wireless is a lot more complicated than selecting a vendor, though. If you know what you're doing even Ubiquiti could work decently, but if you don't even a Cisco solution won't save you. You really need to be on top of surveying correctly and having appropriate AP placement and channel distribution.
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Sina Owolabi <notify.sina@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi
We are profiling equipment and design for an expected high user
density
network of multiple, close nit, residential/hostel units. Its going to be 8-10 buildings with possibly a over 1000 users at any given time. We are looking at Ruckus and Ubiquiti as options to get over the high number of devices we are definitely going to encounter.
How did you do it, and what would you advise for product and layout?
Thanks in advance!
-- Ray Patrick Soucy Network Engineer University of Maine System
T: 207-561-3526 F: 207-561-3531
MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network www.maineren.net
-- Ray Patrick Soucy Network Engineer University of Maine System
T: 207-561-3526 F: 207-561-3531
MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network www.maineren.net
-- Ray Patrick Soucy Network Engineer University of Maine System T: 207-561-3526 F: 207-561-3531 MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network www.maineren.net