Tim, What is hard to understand is why men and women with intelligent brains believe that there is only ' one way, one religion' to do hierarchical routing. What's REALLY hard to believe is that we STILL haven't gotten through to you. No one is telling you that there is one way and one religion. That's what you, in your conspiracy theory, would like to believe, but it's simply NOT true. We are quite certain that there ARE other ways of doing routing. But they are not yet implementable. There is a LOT of work to be done to bring a new routing architecture to full deployment. It has not happened yet. You would be much better served by spending the time to refine and bring one of these to implementability than you will by continuing to stand up and say that we refuse to listen to you. I apologize for repeating myself, but we would love to have something better. Until such an architecture gets sufficiently refined that it can migrate from theoretical journals (or, in the case of Nimrod, theoretical Noelgrams ;-) to something that we can actually code up, you should not expect to see any serious interest in implementation. Unlike certain other working groups, if we do not have a working product on time, there are certain extremely serious ramifications. We cannot simply say "stop the Internet while we figure this out". For one, those of us in commercialdom would immediately be in an Unemployment line. ;-) Or the morgue after the user revolt. I strongly encourage you to continue your study of the problem. I further encourage you to participate in the IRTF and with the other routing theorists (you know the group) who are actively interested in these issues. And I further encourage you to take some time to understand the harsh engineering realities that we face. And I finally encourage you to find a better platform for your discussions than these highly inappropriate mailing lists. Back to my code, Tony