On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 03:14:50PM -0400, William Herrin wrote:
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 2:37 PM, <bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com> wrote:
On Thu, Apr 08, 2010 at 02:22:29PM -0400, William Herrin wrote:
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Mr. James W. Laferriere
Try that fee while trying to make a living in a depressed econimic region JUST for an ipv4 /24 Assignment . I don't make enough to cover that
Not much sympathy for folks crying the blues about the cost of an address assignment that they're going to turn around and announce into the DFZ...
assuming facts not in evidence there ... but ok.
Hi Bill,
If you're not planning to announce a route into the DFZ, we have RFC1918 or IPv6's ULA, address pools that are 100% and completely free for your use.
er... you misunderstand... there is no single "DFZ" anywhere... it is a fiction. no prefix in existance, save 127.0.0.0, ::1, and 0.0.0.0 is globally reachable. reachability depends on your POV, where "you" is roughly the number of addressable entities on the planet. folks announce a route to their peers, and last i checked, no ASN peered with -everyone-. that said, transient connectivity is even more popular now than it was twenty years ago. folks connect/disconnect/reconnet all the time. this is the primary reason why Globally Unique Addresses are so important - one cna nver tell when they will need to peer with someone else in the future.
ARIN has implemented a structure to facilitate IPv4 address transfers should an open market come to exist. Between an address market and the ever more creative use of NAT, it should be possible for IPv4 addressing to continue after free pool depletion as a zero-sum game. Exactly how long is a matter of debate with speculation ranging from months to decades.
cool. I've used the transfer policy with limited success. I guess the interesting thing in your statement (and I suspect a trip to the ARIN NRPM is in order) is "should an open market come into existence" ... how do you see that happening?
eBay?
last ebay transaction I saw was a posting by Martin Levy - and it was withdrawn after some urging by ARIN. Addresses are not sellable property. So what would an "open market" be in... rights to use? (come to think of it, I have seen submarine cable IRUs for sale on eBAY)
Given a demand and a supply, markets don't traditionally need a whole lot of help to come into being.
Ok... lets say there is a pent up supply ... and no good way to let those with demand know the supply exists. I'll consider acting as the "address Yenta" --- if folks have prefixes they are not using, and would like to let others know there is availablity, I'll be glad to be the "go between".
but more to my point. If I'm using a single /24 out of my /20 (using an antiquated example) - would there be:
) interest in the other 15 /24s ) how would that interest be expressed (so I would know about it) ) complaints from the folks running w/o default about the new prefixes on offer? **
The basic plan (ARIN NRPM section 8.3) is:
1. Request and be approved for addresses from ARIN (even though ARIN won't have any addresses to give).
2. Find (pay) someone who has ARIN-managed addresses that they're willing to give up in the quantity you want.
3. Current holder releases addresses to ARIN in the requested (paid) quantity with instructions to provide those addresses to the already-authorized recipient (in #1).
4. ARIN updates the registration accordingly.
I remember this. it suffers from two primary weaknesses: ) finding someone (see my address-Yenta offer above) ) this only works within the ARIN region.
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Dorn Hetzel <dhetzel@gmail.com> wrote:
If there was an automatic website that just handed out up to a /40 on demand, and charged a one-time fee of $100, I don't think the space would ever be exhausted, there isn't enough money.
137 billion prefixes would crush the DFZ routers of course, but as we all know the routing table isn't ARIN's lookout. :-P
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:
ARIN's unilateral right under the LRSA to reclaim my addresses in the event of a dispute bugs me a tad, as does similar verbiage sprinkled throughout.
Let's clarify here, however... Nothing guarantees you that ARIN can not do so if you don't have any contract with them.
Owen,
Your uneducated YANAL opinion about the governing law in the matter is duly noted and filed beside my own differing viewpoint. Until and unless ARIN attempts to forcibly reclaim a block of legacy addresses from its legacy holder, the question remains theoretical.
The point being that while I think continuing to provide a free ride to IPv4 legacy holders is a good idea, there is no reason to continue that concept into the IPv6 world.
The reason is that it could be structured to increase the rate of IPv6 deployment, to the benefit of all. To what degree that would achieve value for cost is debatable, but it certainly qualifies as more than "no reason."
Regards, Bill Herrin
-- William D. Herrin ................ herrin@dirtside.com bill@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <http://bill.herrin.us/> Falls Church, VA 22042-3004