On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 12:23:42 PDT, Eric Rescorla said:
I'm not sure we disagree. All I was saying was that I don't think we have a good reason to believe that the average bug found independently by a white hat is already known to a black hat. Do you disagree?
Actually, yes. Non-obvious bugs (ones with a non 100% chance of being spotted on careful examination) will often be found by both groups. Let's say we have a bug that has a 0.5% chance of being found at any given attempt to find it. Now take 100 white hats and 100 black hats - compute the likelyhood that at least 1 attempt in either group finds it (I figure it as some 39% (1 - (0.995^100)). For bonus points, extend a bit further, and make multiple series of attempts, and compute the probability that for any given pair of 100 attempts, exactly one finds it, or neither finds it, or both find it. And it turns out that for that 39% chance, 16% of the time both groups will find it, 36% of the time exactly one will find it, and 48% of the time *neither* will find it. And in fact, the chance of overlap is much higher, because the two series of 100 runs *aren't* independent. Remember that for the most part, the info that suggested "Look over HERE" to the white hat was also available to the black hat.....