Let me get this straight: Spammers are now sending millions upon millions of unsolicited, for all intents and purposes unpaid for, junk email &c ads daily, growing at a phenomenal rate as they perfect their 24 by 7 mass mailing robots, unchecked, and the concern here is that relatively minor vendor implementation details in TCP stacks are contributing to congestion on the net? Talk about re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic, this really is just a morbid, shuddering case of denial, right? Hey, why build an ark, Noah, when we can have such productive discussions about sponge technology!? I suppose the reasoning is that the vendors we can whine at to fix poorly chosen default MTUs, but spammers, well, if they want to show up at these all you can eat buffets with 18-wheel semis and payloaders that's their business, we'll just have to spend our time building more stuff and socking the costs to the legitimate customers, perhaps we can improve the gas mileage on those semis, yeah that should help. This party really is going downhill fast, it's astounding to watch, like boy scouts dropped off in Somalia proceeding to organize litter policing... -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@world.std.com | http://www.std.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: 617-739-0202 | Login: 617-739-WRLD The World | Public Access Internet | Since 1989