Nice to see that I'm not the only one believing in the foolishness of QoS hype. Bandwidth is essentially free, and will always be cheaper than QoS. And since in the end nearly all decisions are based on economics, it should be apparent which is the more logical decision. Allow me to point you to an interesting paper called "Rise of the Stupid Network." Many of you here may have already seen this. It was written back in 1997 by David Isenberg, then a reasearcher at AT&T Labs (Isenberg is now an independent consultant). His paper profoundly changed my views on QoS and made me realize that networks perform best when we limit how smart they get and ensure that networks focus on transport only. I urge everyone to read it. Paper: http://www.rageboy.com/stupidnet.html Isenberg's site: http://www.isen.com/ _________________________________________________________ Steve Riley Microsoft Telecommunications Practice in Denver, Colorado email: mailto:steriley@microsoft.com call: +1 303 521-4129 (cellular) page: +1 888 440-6249 or mailto:4406249@skytel.com Applying computer technology is simply finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw. -----Original Message----- From: Vadim Antonov [mailto:avg@kotovnik.com] Sent: Monday, May 17, 1999 12:28 PM To: nanog@merit.edu; pete@kruckenberg.com Subject: Re: Is anyone actually USING IP QoS? Yep. Altough not _all_ QoS schemes are broken-as-designed. The most trivial per-packet priority combined with ingress priority mix shaping works. Ths idea of end-to-end whatever reservations or guarantees is usually propounded by people who either neglected their CS courses or those who are trying to sell it. Yep. The biggest QoS secret is that nobody actually needs it. Bandwidth is cheap and is growing cheaper. The manpower needed to deploy and maintain QoS is getting more and more expensive. --vadim