On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 bdragon@gweep.net wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 bdragon@gweep.net wrote:
More importantly, a quick study in logic shows there should be no requirement for the existing space to meet RFC2050 requirements -- the space is already allocated. After the renumbering period there's no net damage to the IPv4 "shortage" since similar amounts of space would be assigned, but it would be a great help to the global routing system.
The problem is that PA space is questionable. As you stated, if the only way to do something one wants to do is to lie/cheat/steal/kill, many people will do it.
Can you quote an example of someone who was killed in the name of PA space?
Can you state with certainty that no one has been killed? (We could certainly go around that point circularly for awhile). I know I've wanted to kill some of my customers, even if I haven't actually followed through with it.
no .. you win!
in any event, I'll assume you accept the illustrative point by only taking on the severity of what people will stoop to.
Some of the "P" in the PA will break the rules in order to drive sales. So, the inherent assumption that a provider is already compliant is not a given, which strikes down the argument.
I'ld advocate for mandatory compliance checking on each allocation request or biannually, whichever is more frequent. Of course, I'ld also advocate that it a provider is below 25% usage, that they have address space rescinded, including blocks not presently assigned
even where over-allocation is concerned you cant seriously expect folks to renumber in order to give space back. renumbering has to be a no-no.
Why not?
you've not done this then i assume?
to any RIR. If an entity can not be contacted for 2 compliance periods (for example, a swamp /24 to some long-dead company) that they be considered defunct, and the space rescinded.
i assume dead space is recovered anyway? surely the provider isnt providing space and services to a company that is dead and not paying bills?
what provider? a swamp /24 would have been allocated by InterNIC along with your single domain name. The domains, by virtue of a periodic reregistration process, are cleaned up. The swamp space isn't (yet).
if its a direct allocation from arin then you have membership fees, if they arent paid surely thats an indication theres a problem? if its some sort of pre-arin stuff then we've jumped off-thread.
But, then again, I'm fairly liberal. I'm sure the more conservative
liberal compared to stalin maybe ;p
among us (and those hanging onto former customer /24s, /8s, etc) would absolutely hate this, since they are getting something for nothing and don't like having to play by the same rules as the rest of us.
you have a slightly different point here, i agree. theres a number of legacy /8s out there, they need fixing. i dont have any answers tho!
As well as /16s, and /24s. A periodic communication of some kind is really needed to cull out the silent lost. Similarly those who are so far out of whack from the rest of us due to fortunate circumstance should be brought to something approaching in-line.
hmm, if its dead then presumably you could achieve this by watching the routing table over a period of a few months and considering blocks older than a couple of years that are consistently not appearing to be dead and automatically reusable maybe? Steve
As someone else mentioned, there should not be a MAX function on registry dues.
Steve