You are correct. The rings are geographically diverse and separated (ie, they have separate rings for each metro and then tie the rings together in multiple places). No idea about the right-of-ways, but my understanding is that it wasn't necessarily meant to be a be-all-end-all for those sorts of outages. You are correct, however, it is one of the most reliable infrastructures we connect to.
-----Original Message----- From: R. Benjamin Kessler [mailto:rbk@midwestnsg.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:39 PM To: sgorman1@gmu.edu; 'Temkin, David' Cc: 'Alen Capalik'; 'Philip Lavine'; 'nanog' Subject: RE: RE: RE: NYSE
My understanding is that the way the SFTI network is built the loss of an entire ring between Site A and Site B wouldn't cause an outage because Site B would also have a ring between it and Site C and Site A would be connected to Site n.
I can't speak to how the fibers were procured and whether or not they're in their own rights-of-way (as another poster suggested; I'd guess that they're using previously dark fiber in existing bundles).
Based-on the drawings I've seen (unfortunately, they don't appear to be on SFTI's web site so they must be considered proprietary) the multiple rings are separated in some places by several hundred miles to prevent the single back hoe incident.
Aside from the $$ and the joy of dealing with SIAC (they tend to be a bit inflexible at times), the infrastructure has been quite stable in the 18 months that my client has been using it.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of sgorman1@gmu.edu Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:31 AM To: Temkin, David Cc: Alen Capalik; Philip Lavine; nanog Subject: Re: RE: RE: NYSE
So, that would be a another conduit sitting in the same right of way, and this is supposed to make it "completely independent". Last time I checked a backhoe treated all conduits the same. Not trying to shoot the messanger jsut trying to make a point.
Points of entry is different than the number of pipes. The biggest single problem in the security of these networks is physical diversity, at least in my biased point of view. There are six different sets of right of ways in Manhattan and forty something fiber providers, but no one seems to fess up when they are not offering redundancy but just another pipe in the same conduit. Do the math and you see the problem. It is not just a SFTI problem but a generic problem. Just worrisome that it appears that SFTI does not see it as a problem, or worse view at as a problem they have solved by laying new pipe in the same conduits.
The problem rears it head in several examples where effeciency and cost savings trumps true diversity.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Temkin, David" <temkin@sig.com> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 11:11 am Subject: RE: RE: NYSE
It's my understanding that A) The providers of the actual ring did install "Separate" fiber for SFTI but I have no idea whether or not they're in new rights of way - I'm willing to bet not
B) Reducing the points of entry into the ring reduces complexity and makes it much easier to recover the ring in the event of a disaster. Understanding that SIAC has thousands and thouands of customers connecting at the DS-3+ level to get data that's generated from one place means that you need to keep the distribution uniform. Basically,it boils down to them being able to say "Our ring is up, if your connectivity to our ring is down it's your problem" in order to maintainfairness between Trading firm A that has 10 people and Trading firm B that has 10,000 people.
When they were maintaining separate interfaces for each customer they could potentially run into issues where they'd get certain larger firmsback able to trade sooner than smaller ones and then you create unfair market disadvantages.
-----Original Message----- From: sgorman1@gmu.edu [mailto:sgorman1@gmu.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:40 AM To: Temkin, David Cc: Alen Capalik; Philip Lavine; nanog Subject: Re: RE: NYSE
There are a few things about the SFTI set up that are a bit baffling to me. From their website:
SFTI carries IP traffic over a topology of redundant, self-healing fiber-optic rings, completely independent of all other telco circuits and conduits. SFTI's design is straightforward, consolidating traffic into fewer pipes, which minimizes complexity and reduces the number of potential points of failure.
What does "completely independent of all other telco circuits and conduits" mean? Did they get their very own "new" right of ways dug out. A certain government report listed their physical fiber provider, and they certainly are not new right of ways. Further, I'm a bit baffled how reducing the number of pipes reduces the number of potential points of failure. Usually fewer pipes means less diversity. A ring is nice till someone hits it in two places. I also wonder how many of these rings are collapsed in a single conduit. I hope someone over there is asking tough questions and are following up on getting a second physical fiber provider. I'd recommend not advertising who it this time either.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Temkin, David" <temkin@sig.com> Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:45 am Subject: RE: NYSE
You can no longer order "direct" lines to SIAC unless you have
extremely compelling reason. Nowadays you must order a
which is their Disaster-Recovery-centric service. You are correct aboutthe connection method, but he will need to be specific and understandthat he wants to connect to SFTI and not just "SIAC" directly anymore.
See: https://sfti.siac.com/sfti/index.jsp for more details.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Alen Capalik Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 10:20 PM To: Philip Lavine Cc: nanog Subject: Re: NYSE
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 10:36:16AM -0700, Philip Lavine wrote:
If I where to connect to SIAC thru a SONNET ring who's
would it be? Is
it private or public?
They use any provider (Verizon, MCI, AT&T and ConEd Comm.), however ConED Comm. is their primary backbone provider. So, here's how you go about it. You order a line (DS-1, DS-3, 100Mb/s, Gig, whatever) from any of the providers you use (if I were you I would use either Verizon or ConEd Comm, I can give you the number for ConEd Comm. head sales person). You contact SIAC, and you start the
to get your network connected into their backbone SONET. Once you get permit numbers, you have the provider drop a line into one of 5 data centers around NY area, and SIAC gives you a port on one of their Juniper Routers. They also give you a VLAN setup requirements so you can configure your border switch/router. The line is owned by you. SIAC only gives you a port on
routers. NOTE: NEVER ORDER ONE LINE. ORDER TWO OR MORE LINES TO DIFFERENT SIAC DATA CENTERS. The cost for one port (one line) is as follows:
MRC (Monthly Reaccuring Cost): $4,400.00 NRC (Non-Reaccuring Cost i.e. one time fee): $8,800
Any line you drop at SIAC will cost you that amount, and
top of the line costs from the provider. That's it. Hope
an line to "SFTI" paperwork their that's on this
helps. Like I said it's a very long and tedious process getting the line up and running with SIAC. They are practically a government institution, and they don't move too fast for anybody.
--- "R. Benjamin Kessler" <rbk@midwestnsg.com> wrote:
> I've setup a highly-redundant connection for one of my
clients
> (equipment in two different access-centers in two different cities). > > What are you looking to do? > > - Ben > > ~~~~~~~~~~ > R. Benjamin Kessler > Sr. Network Consultant > CCIE #8762, CISSP, CCSE > Midwest Network Services Group > Email: rbk@midwestnsg.com > http://www.midwestnsg.com > Phone: 260-625-3273 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-nanog@merit.edu > [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Philip Lavine > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 2:38 PM > To: nanog@merit.edu > Subject: NYSE > > > Does anyone have experience in setting up a direct connection with > NYSE, specifically SIAC or SFTI? > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > >
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-- Alen Capalik CTO Wiretap Networks Inc.
Tel: (310)497-3512 Email: alen@wiretapnetworks.com Website: http://www.wiretapnetworks.com
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