To move toward a positive direction ... Discuss the effect that wide spread filtering against spoofed addresses would have on the current number of DDOS attacks. Why can't access router vendors be jawboned into providing anti spoofing filters as a default configuration; or at least automate the process to eliminate spoofed addresses in the wild? Have a logo like the good housekeeping seal for networks that filter on the egress. As Paul stated, demand it from peers. It is a pain. If the political will exist, it will be done. If the PR and marketing folks think it will increase sales, it will be done a lot faster. -- Joseph T. Klein +1 414 915 7489 Senior Network Engineer jtk@titania.net Adelphia Business Solutions joseph.klein@adelphiacom.com "... the true value of the Internet is its connectedness ..." -- John W. Stewart III