The difference between everyone posting here and for example the intellectual property folks like RIAA is the latter has organization and money. As I said earlier one thing that organization and money has done is defined, with some precision, where the boundaries are. It's a moving target but that's a lot better than nothing. And money for lobbyists etc to go to govts and courts to impress them with their point of view and even get it written into law and precedents. It's not perfect, nothing is, but when someone puts up a music sharing service with a million recordings none authorized in Lower Slobbovia they usually manage to get it shut down (that happens, ok not Lower Slobbovia exactly.) Something else they get is budget assigned to law enforcement agencies to pursue those commercial violations. I remember speaking early on to someone in an FBI office about spam and related, this was probably ca 2000, and he completely sympathized but said sorry, the FBI has no budget to pursue such things. Like many very nice people you think LEAs pursue crimes merely because they are crimes. That the money to do so just appears on demand because IT'S A CRIME! Book 'em Dan-o! Hah! I'll repeat that. Hah! These are commercial crimes not terrorism or kidnapping or murder or tearing those labels off mattresses. Much more difficult to get on LEAs radar. On the darker side be careful what you wish for. You won't personally be defining these boundaries. People like lobbyists and policy wonks and legislators will. People this hypothetical organization hires and those influenced by those hires. People who can spend full time wordsmithing all this and getting attention. It takes very active involvement to steer good intentions to good results and not just end up with scattershot gibberish or worse overbearing laws which do more harm than good. And that all takes organization and money and involvement not postings on NANOG except inasmuch as they might lead to organization and money etc. It's possible and maybe even desirable but what I see here ain't it. -- -Barry Shein Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*