On Monday, March 10, 1997 5:33 PM, Alex P. Rudnev[SMTP:alex@Relcom.EU.net] wrote: @ > On Sunday, March 09, 1997 11:42 PM, Tom Glover[SMTP:tomg@boiled.egg.com] wrote: @ > @ @ > @ Good question! Would the bankrupt court consider the address space as a @ > @ sellable asset? @ > @ @ > @ > I believe that you will find the answer to be yes... @ I believe... yes, I believe... Through it was not joke but serious @ question; and I hope you get serious answer... @ @ Please, pay attention to the fact - IP numbers are not selled, they cost @ nothing; but they are important part of the assets ISP does have... DO @ you think it'll be forever - the thing _cost nothing_ but _is limited_ @ and _is important_...? @ IP Addresses cost a fortune... All of the time, energy, travel, consultants fees, etc. that go into obtaining IP addresses are part of the cost. @ No matter if _there exist big nabobs_ or _not_... Everything is relative @ - there is one set of _big nabobs_ there i Russia; there is another set @ in Europe, and 3'th set in USA (and some _USA's nabobs_ have not any real @ weight in Russia, for example_). But the truths is _we would not see a @ lot of existing ISP in a few next years_ (in USA, in Russia, in Europe - @ I am not market man and don't like to predict future). And I dislike to @ have a lot of flame in the mail lists, a lot of wasted address space in @ IP numbers, and a lot of routing problems when this small ISP would be @ joined, merged, splitted etc... @ When people have to start paying to be routed then this will end. I have suggested that ISPs be given a /18 only after they produce signed routing agreements from 2 providers with a minimum bandwidth on each connection of 1.5 Mbps or better. The key is the system has to be objective. It does not have to be easy it just has to be fair for all. Also, the system should not favor companies with the resources to drive or fly to Fairfax County Virginia or companies that can open an office there or companies that can spend hours on the phone from Moscow to that location. The IP resources need to be placed under proper management and closer to the people that need them. Geographic considerations have to be taken into account because sometimes local situations must be fully understood to do the proper job. @ I do not know if InterNIC's people think about this, or they allow @ everything to flow as it's flowing itself. But the time of academic's @ Internet is over, and new players are appeared on the playboard... @ De facto European ISP buy address space, because they pay for the IP @ registry; and this helps to keep address space. You can blame to those @ who sells class-B networks; but if they would not sell them, nobody use @ this address space at all (nobody cause them to free this space)... @ Yes...the academics are now off playing with IPv6... Unfortunately, the real problem is the psuedo-government crowd. These are people who work for the governments but no one in the government knows what they do and when things get hot they step outside of the government arena and claim to be non-government. It can drive a new company nuts. Imagine a company going to a government office to get a business license and finding that it was the company's competitor issuing the license... @ It's important to go between scilla and charibda (sorry, I am not sure @ about spelling this names in English); I have when american's NIC began @ to ask money for the top level domains, but can't get this money by any @ acceptable ways (and a lot of people over the world send faxes, try to @ call them by phone etc because they have not enougph phones and peoples @ to do their work); I am afraid if class-B network would cost 60,000$ @ (it's not too great for the _big nabobs_ or for the old ISP but it's @ serious barrier for the small ISP in the small countries - let's imagine @ some ISP in the Georgia, for example, or some scientific institute in @ Armenia)... @ Your regions need to have IP resources placed in the region's hands for proper management. As you point out it is a huge barrier to entry to try to sit on the phone and FAX from a different part of the world. The time-zone difference can be a bigg difference. When you are fresh they are beat (or sleeping) and vice versa... @ Cleanly it's not good place _nanog_ to discuss there, but I don't see @ another one while... @ <http://www.arin.net> is suggested by many but in my opinion, ARIN is being rail-roaded through the decision-making process to help solve some very well-known problems that are mostly local to the NSF, NSI, and the InterNIC. ARIN mostly helps NSI. @ > @ > Companies in the U.S. should probably consult with their @ > CPAs and attorneys on how the IRS handles assets such @ > as IP addresses. @ > @ > This is especially important if an asset is required without @ > any payment being made. If a /8 is worth $1,000,000 and @ > some company is arbitrarily given one of these to help @ > their "start-up" get venture capital, then that asset is a @ > key to obtaining the funding and is part of the capitalization @ > of the company. @ > @ > The organization "giving" the "start-up" that block, could @ > be viewed as an "equity" partner or stockholder in the @ > start-up. If the start-up raised $4,000,000 and added the @ > block to their Balance Sheet then that asset would be @ > 20% of the company. That can be a significant ownership @ > interest in a start-up, subject to the 5% limits. @ > @ > Again...I suggest that companies make sure they understand @ > the value of their IP assets and how to account for that value. @ > <trim> -- Jim Fleming Unir Corporation e-mail: JimFleming@unety.net JimFleming@unety.s0.g0 (EDNS/IPv8)