Bill, I understand completely what you are saying, but QoS is not ubiquitous in the end-to-end sense in the Internet. And that is a problem. Once _any_ traffic which you might deem "quality" leaves your administrative control (e.g. the boundaries of your network), you have no guarantee that the "quality" handling of that traffic will be honored (or, in this case, carried at all). I agree with whomever said it earlier -- remember that the global Internet is nothing more than a bunch of interconnected private networks. - ferg -- Bill Nash <billn@billn.net> wrote: Obviously VOIP needs QoS to function well on oversold, commodity broadband networks. Why not just paint VOIP with a broad QoS brush (as in, prioritize all of it, not just your own service) and defang the folks just looking for an excuse to step in and take the option away from you? - billn -- "Fergie", a.k.a. Paul Ferguson Engineering Architecture for the Internet fergdawg@netzero.net or fergdawg@sbcglobal.net