The biggest problems that start to run with cases of CGN or any other v4 aggregation method are services that still continue to treat single IP addresses as a single entity (a certain event ticket vendor comes to mind). Until these organizations either start opening a line of communications with ISPs, changing their methodology when handling traffic from v4 addresses, and/or deploying v6, the song and dance for v4 addressing will continue. On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 7:57 PM, Lee Howard <lee@asgard.org> wrote:
From: Michael Crapse <michael@wi-fiber.io> Date: Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:27 PM To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> Cc: Lee Howard <lee@asgard.org>, NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Leasing /22
Customers on ps4s and xboxes will hate you. They will always get "strict" nat, and it's your fault not mega corporation X's fault for not releasing IPv4s
Maybe. You don’t have to configure strict NAT on your translator (DS-Lite’s pretty good at this, and although I’m a few weeks away from testing consoles through 464xlat and MAP, they should work, too). And their NAT workarounds are pretty sophisticated now.
There comes a point when winning your customers’ love isn’t profitable. I don’t know if that point is $16/address for you, or $30, or $40, or $90. Maybe it varies, depending on the customer.
That’s why I suggested in “TCO of CGN”[1] that everyone figure out for themselves how much money you might lose to unhappy customers via CGN, and compare it to how much addresses cost, and at what price point you might turn around and sell addresses. My findings then, based on assumptions that almost certainly are not true for any particular network, and which may have changed, suggest that buying addresses still makes sense.
Lee
[1] http://ipv6.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2025
On 22 January 2018 at 15:23, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> wrote:
Add to that CGN from RFC 6598 addresses (100.64/10) + IPv6 though that reaches its limit at ~4M customers.
Native IPv4 with a GUA to customers is essentially unavailable for new ISPs. It’s a matter of picking which flavour of NAT you and your customers are going to use. The sooner ALL ISP’s provide IPv6 to their customers the sooner we restore delivering the Internet to the
Mark
On 23 Jan 2018, at 9:05 am, Lee Howard <lee@asgard.org> wrote:
IPv6 still solves your problem if you add any of NAT64, DS-Lite,
464xlat,
MAP-T, MAP-E.
Yes, you’re NATing, but only the traffic to places like Hulu, and it will decrease over time. And while you need addresses for the outside of
translator, you don’t need as many (or to get more as frequently).
Lee
On 1/20/18, 10:20 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Mike Hammett" <nanog-bounces@nanog.org on behalf of nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
> It's not really scraping the bottom of the barrel if your customers are > using Hulu and they're complaining because Hulu isn't responsive to > fixing their problems (geo-location, v6, etc.). > > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > Midwest-IX > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ca By" <cb.list6@gmail.com> > To: "Michael Crapse" <michael@wi-fiber.io> > Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org> > Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 9:54:23 PM > Subject: Re: Leasing /22 > > On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 5:48 PM Michael Crapse < michael@wi-fiber.io> > wrote: > >>> Has Hulu, or a thousand other content distributors considered IPv6? >>> Because >>> you can't even tunnel to ipv4 without setting off VPN alarms with HULU. >>> > > Hulu? Really scraping the bottom of the barrel of content
customers. the providers that
> dont use ipv6 these days. > > Netflix and Youtube support v6 ... and thousand of others (thousands just > on Cloudflare where v6 is default on) > > About 80% of my traffic is native e2e v6, mostly google / youtube / fb / > netflix / apple / amazon — but your mix may vary. > > > >>> >>> >>> On 19 January 2018 at 18:38, Andrew Kirch <trelane@trelane.net> wrote: >>> > >>>> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 4:59 PM Ryan Gard <ryangard@gmail.com> > wrote: > >>>> >> >>>>> We're on the hunt yet again for an additional /22 to lease, and are >> >>>>> wondering what the best options are out there? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Our usual suspects that we've reached out to in the past seem to be >>> plum >> >>>>> out... Any recommendations? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Thanks! >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -- >> >>>>> Ryan Gard >> >>>>> > >>>> Have you considered IPv6? > >>>> >>> > >
-- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 <tel:%2B61%202%209871%204742> INTERNET: marka@isc.org
-- Ryan Gard