Re: Dual stack IPv6 for IPv4 depletion

6 Jul 2015

      Ah, thanks.  I was considering this from a CE only perspective.

-andrew-------- Original message --------
From: Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> 
Date: 07/06/2015  10:49 AM  (GMT-05:00) 
To: andrew <andrew@ethernaut.io> 
Cc: Lee Howard <Lee@asgard.org>, Josh Moore <jmoore@atcnetworks.net>, nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: Dual stack IPv6 for IPv4 depletion 

MPLS requires an IPv4 core. You can't run an IPv6-only infrastructure  because neither CSCO or JNPR have implemented LDP to distribute labels for IPV6 prefixes. 

-mel via cell

On Jul 6, 2015, at 7:15 AM, andrew <andrew@ethernaut.io> wrote:

Pardon my ignorance - what do you see missing in MPLS in regards to support for IP6?
-------- Original message --------

From: Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org> 

Date: 07/06/2015 9:44 AM (GMT-05:00) 

To: Lee Howard <Lee@asgard.org> 

Cc: Josh Moore <jmoore@atcnetworks.net>,
nanog@nanog.org 

Subject: Re: Dual stack IPv6 for IPv4 depletion 

And let's all complain to the MPLS working group to get IPv6 support finished up!

-mel beckman
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On Jul 6, 2015, at 6:27 AM, Lee Howard <Lee@asgard.org> wrote:
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Some thoughts. . .
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³Native dual-stack² is ³native IPv4 and native IPv6.²
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³Dual-stack² might be native, or might by ³native IPv6 plus IPv4 address
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sharing.²
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Your IPv4 address sharing options are CGN, DS-Lite, and MAP. There are
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operational deployments of all three, in the order given. You need them
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close enough to your customers that traffic will return over the same
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path. You can¹t share state among a cluster of boxes, but that¹s not the
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end of the world; a device failure sometimes causes loss of state. MAP is
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the hot new thing all the cool kids are doing.
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Look to your router and load balancer vendors for devices that do these.
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CGN is the only one that doesn¹t require updates to the home gateway. The
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more IPv6 your customers use, the smaller your CGN/AFTR/MAP can be.
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Think about how you¹ll position it to customers. It¹s difficult to change
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a customer¹s service mid-contract. At some point, a customer is no longer
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profitable: if NAT costs and service calls add up, you may be better off
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buying addresses or losing the customer. You may need to buy some IPv4
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addresses to give you time; contact a broker.
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You may be surprised how hard it is to root IPv4 out of the system. Don¹t
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buy anything you can¹t manage over IPv6, including servers and
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applications. Sorry, vendor, I can¹t buy your cluster, I don¹t have the
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IPv4 address space to provision it.
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Lee
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On 7/4/15, 8:09 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Josh Moore"
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<nanog-bounces@nanog.org on behalf of
jmoore@atcnetworks.net> wrote:
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Traditional dual stack deployments implement both IPv4 and IPv6 to the
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CPE.
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Consider the following:
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An ISP is at 90% IPv4 utilization and would like to deploy dual stack
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with the purpose of allowing their subscriber base to continue to grow
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regardless of the depletion of the IPv4 space. Current dual stack best
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practices seem to recommend deploying BOTH IPv4 and IPv6 to every CPE. If
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this is the case, and BOTH are still required, then how does IPv6 help
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with the v4 address depletion crisis? Many sites and services would still
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need legacy IPv4 compatibility. Sure, CGN technology may be a solution
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but what about applications that need direct IPv4 connectivity without
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NAT? It seems that there should be a mechanism to enable on-demand and
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efficient IPv4 address consumption ONLY when needed. My question is this:
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What, if any, solutions like this exist? If no solution exists then what
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is the next best thing? What would the overall IPv6 migration strategy
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and goal be?
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Sorry for the length of this email but these are legitimate concerns and
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while I understand the need for IPv6 and the importance of getting there;
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I don't understand exactly HOW that can be done considering the immediate
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issue: IPv4 depletion.
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Thanks
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Joshua Moore
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Network Engineer
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ATC Broadband
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912.632.3161
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