https://www.worldipv6launch.org/measurements/
It does seem like there's enough IPv6 use in the last mile networks where they don't need the IPv4 users anymore.
From: "Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org>, "Daniel Sterling" <sterling.daniel@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:45:24 AM
Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
Yes
No.
On 9/28/20 8:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Are non-ISP-provided routers all that common anymore?
>
> Aren't there enough IPv6-enabled operators with critical mass of IPv6
> deployments that IPv4-only networks can be treated like the second-tier
> citizens they are?
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>, "Daniel Sterling"
> <sterling.daniel@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:42:16 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
>
> Many... but not all... and just because the operator is doesn't mean the
> person you want to play with is. And just because the operator is
> doesn't mean the router you or the other person is using supports it.
>
> On 9/28/20 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Aren't most of the major operators using IPv6?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From: *"Daniel Sterling" <sterling.daniel@gmail.com>
> > *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
> > *Cc: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>, "North American
> > Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
> > *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 8:33:56 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
> >
> > Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question,
> >
> > At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty games
> > I've played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to work rather well
> > and should function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically turning on upnp
> > makes this *worse*, because when their algorithm probes to see what
> > ports to use, upnp sends all traffic from the "magical xbox port" to one
> > box instead of letting NAT control the ports. This does cause problems
> > when multiple xboxes are behind one NAT doing upnp. If upnp is on and
> > both xboxes are fully powered off and then turned on one at a time,
> > things do work. But when upnp is off everything works w/o having to
> do that.
> >
> > There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that may do horrible
> > things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn't cause problems for any recent
> > device / gaming system.
> >
> > It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that's
> > cuz they can't count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and
> > it wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming host support
> > dual-stack. just a guess there
> >
> > -- Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:29 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net
> > <mailto:nanog@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices to work behind one
> > public IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven't kept up in that realm.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net
> > <mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
> > *To: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.steffl@mnwifi.com
> > <mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com>>
> > *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org
> > <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
> > *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
> >
> > I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not
> > work - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the same PAT device, an
> > apartment complex or hotel WiFi system, etc.
> >
> > On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl
> > <darin.steffl@mnwifi.com <mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > This isn't rocket science.
> >
> > Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address and turn on upnp,
> > then they will have open NAT to play their game and host.
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:50 PM Matt Hoppes
> > <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net
> > <mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
> >
> > I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious if
> > anyone here knows why gaming consoles are so stupid when it
> > comes to IPv4?
> >
> > We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through
> > multiple layers of PAT and NAT. Why do we still have gaming
> > consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their way through a PAT
> > system with STUN or other methods?
> >
> > It seems like this should be a simple solution, why are we
> > still opening ports or having systems that don’t work?
> >
> >
> >
>
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
Cc: "North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org>, "Daniel Sterling" <sterling.daniel@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 28, 2020 7:45:24 AM
Subject: Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
Yes
No.
On 9/28/20 8:44 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Are non-ISP-provided routers all that common anymore?
>
> Aren't there enough IPv6-enabled operators with critical mass of IPv6
> deployments that IPv4-only networks can be treated like the second-tier
> citizens they are?
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>, "Daniel Sterling"
> <sterling.daniel@gmail.com>
> *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
> *Sent: *Monday, September 28, 2020 7:42:16 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
>
> Many... but not all... and just because the operator is doesn't mean the
> person you want to play with is. And just because the operator is
> doesn't mean the router you or the other person is using supports it.
>
> On 9/28/20 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > Aren't most of the major operators using IPv6?
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From: *"Daniel Sterling" <sterling.daniel@gmail.com>
> > *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
> > *Cc: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>, "North American
> > Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org>
> > *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 8:33:56 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
> >
> > Matt Hoppes raises an interesting question,
> >
> > At the risk of this being off-topic, in the latest call of duty games
> > I've played, their UDP-NAT-breaking algorithm seems to work rather well
> > and should function fine even behind CGNAT. Ironically turning on upnp
> > makes this *worse*, because when their algorithm probes to see what
> > ports to use, upnp sends all traffic from the "magical xbox port" to one
> > box instead of letting NAT control the ports. This does cause problems
> > when multiple xboxes are behind one NAT doing upnp. If upnp is on and
> > both xboxes are fully powered off and then turned on one at a time,
> > things do work. But when upnp is off everything works w/o having to
> do that.
> >
> > There are many other games and many CPE NAT boxes that may do horrible
> > things, but CGNAT by itself shouldn't cause problems for any recent
> > device / gaming system.
> >
> > It is true that I've yet to see any FPS game use ipv6. I assume that's
> > cuz they can't count on users having v6, so they have to support v4, and
> > it wouldn't be worth their while to have their gaming host support
> > dual-stack. just a guess there
> >
> > -- Dan
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 27, 2020 at 7:29 PM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net
> > <mailto:nanog@ics-il.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Actually, uPNP is the only way to get two devices to work behind one
> > public IP, at least with XBox 360s. I haven't kept up in that realm.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> >
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp><https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From: *"Matt Hoppes" <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net
> > <mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
> > *To: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.steffl@mnwifi.com
> > <mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com>>
> > *Cc: *"North American Network Operators' Group" <nanog@nanog.org
> > <mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
> > *Sent: *Sunday, September 27, 2020 1:22:51 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: Gaming Consoles and IPv4
> >
> > I understand that. But there’s a host of reasons why that night not
> > work - two devices trying to use UPNP behind the same PAT device, an
> > apartment complex or hotel WiFi system, etc.
> >
> > On Sep 27, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Darin Steffl
> > <darin.steffl@mnwifi.com <mailto:darin.steffl@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > This isn't rocket science.
> >
> > Give each customer their own ipv4 IP address and turn on upnp,
> > then they will have open NAT to play their game and host.
> >
> > On Sun, Sep 27, 2020, 12:50 PM Matt Hoppes
> > <mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net
> > <mailto:mattlists@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:
> >
> > I know the solution is always “IPv6”, but I’m curious if
> > anyone here knows why gaming consoles are so stupid when it
> > comes to IPv4?
> >
> > We have VoIP and video systems that work fine through
> > multiple layers of PAT and NAT. Why do we still have gaming
> > consoles, in 2020, that can’t find their way through a PAT
> > system with STUN or other methods?
> >
> > It seems like this should be a simple solution, why are we
> > still opening ports or having systems that don’t work?
> >
> >
> >
>