****** Resend to go through NANOG
******
On 2022-03-25 12:24, Abraham Y. Chen
wrote:
Dear Owen:
0) You rapid fired
a few posts in succession yesterday. Some are interesting and
crucial views that I would like to follow-up on. I will start
from quoting the earlier ones. I hope that I am picking up the
correct leads.
1) " ... 240/4 is
way more effort than its proponents want to believe and even
if it were reclassified effectively as GUA, it doesn’t buy all
that much life for IPv4. ... ": Perhaps you have not
bothered to scan through a two page whitepaper (URL below,
again) that I submitted a week or so ago? It promises simple
implementation and significant increase of assignable IPv4
addresses, even extendable to the similar size of IPv6 if we
could forgo our mentality about the IP addresses as "Personal
Properties", by switching to treat them as "Natural
Resources".
It still looks like NAT to me.
NAT is a disgusting hack and destroys the universal peer to peer nature of the internet in favor of a consumer/provider model.
Your proposal perpetuates that problem.
2) " ... so that
content providers can start turning off v4 where it’s costing
them money to support it. .... " & "... Content
providers turning off v4 face competition from content
providers that don’t. ... ": These two statements appeared
to come from two separate posting of yours. They seemed to be
contradicting each other. Did I misread somehow?
No, it is not contradictory at all…
Content providers that have deployed IPv6 are eager to turn off IPv4 as soon as it won’t lose them customers. They are worried about losing customers because competition exists that might not turn off IPv4 at the same time they do. Thus, there is a need for customers to be IPv6 deployed before content providers can start turning off IPv4. Thus, the persistence of IPv4 in clients, especially enterprises, is costing content providers money.
Now from the last post
below:
3) " ... 240/4 is
way more effort than its proponents want to believe and even
if it were reclassified effectively as GUA, it doesn’t buy all
that much life for IPv4.... ": Please see information
provided by Pt. 1) above.
OK, so you want to extend RFC-1918 instead… Arguably even more worthless than reclassifying it as GUA. While it’s true that some very large deployments are short of RFC-1918 space, the reality is that the real shortage is in the GUA realm.
4) " ... I think it
should be reclassified from never going to be used into some
part of the internet might actually do something with it. Its
important that happens now, better late then never ... Please
feel free to use it for router IDs in BGP and/or OSPF area
numbers. :p ... ": I am in full agreement with you. Our
proposal is the solution in Pt. 1) above.
That’s not me. That’s Joe Maimon IIRC. My part was “Pleas feel free to use it for router IDs in BGP and/or OSPF area numbers. :p.
It was mostly a snarky comment since neither BGP Router IDs nor OSPF Area numbers are actually IP addresses.
5) " ... if we
continue to waste effort that is better spent deploying IPv6
on bandaids and hacks to make v4 last just a little longer,
.... ": This is not a productive opinion. Please do not
forget that the Internet heavily promotes personal freedom.
One can not force others to do something that they do not
believe in. Stopping them from doing one thing does not
automatically make them to do what you like. A project must
have its own merits that attract contribution. The failure of
the IPv6 actually started from when a decision was made to the
effect of "not to emphasize backward compatibility with IPv4"
which broke one of the golden rules in system engineering. Not
recognizing such and focusing to find a way for remedying it,
but continuing to force others to migrate to IPv6 camp with
various tactics does not foster progress.
We can agree to disagree about that… I think trying to continue to support IPv4 is not a productive opinion.
6) " ... The
problem is that we’re not talking about parallel experiments.
... ": EzIP is a parallel experiment to the current
Internet (not only IPv4, but also IPv6) operations, because
its overlay architecture on the latter demarcates everything
happening on it from the Internet. As long as packets
exchanged between the two conform to the established Internet
protocols, an EzIP deployment (called RAN - Regional Area
Network) will appear as innocent as an ordinary private
network.
Again, I disagree… You left out the relevant part of my quote where I stated that resources spent developing this mechanism are better used deploying IPv6.
Owen