if I may chime in - It is the nature of the corporate-beast which has changed. When I was starting out in the 80's and even through the early 90's network eng and sys eng went hand in hand. Today it is far more silo'd. NetEng, SysEng are very *distinct* and as a result different groups today from an operational standpoint. NetEng deals with tcp/ip(without having a clue as to how apps interact with tcp/ip (generally speaking!!) and the opposite applies to SysEng(once again, generally speaking!) So, programmers with network engineering skills and vise-versa are a rare-commodity to say the least. I don't think it has anything to do with who is *inherently* interested in network eng or sys eng. In the end: upto the "$Employer". Know what you are *really* looking for, give them the opportunity to expand their horizons and you will have found your-network engineer/programmer(you will still find people who are willing to learn - that is you greatest asset!!) ( I used to script, write; maybe a few lines of C many many years ago....as a Sr. Network Engineer. Haven't done that for years because $employer doesn't want it as a part of my job: and to $employer, I The "Sr. Network Architect".....<lol> My 02c's worth wrt this thread. ./Randy --- On Mon, 3/5/12, Alain Hebert <ahebert@pubnix.net> wrote:
From: Alain Hebert <ahebert@pubnix.net> Subject: Re: Programmers with network engineering skills To: nanog@nanog.org Date: Monday, March 5, 2012, 7:18 PM About (5 thru 6)
Hard to keep a straight face in front of a customer when, after assigning him a IP in our 192.172.250.0 range...
... He ask why are we NATing using private IP's.
We also had plenty of experience with ppl getting confused about 16, 17.
Your could add L2 Trunking and VRRP to your list... I spent many hours explaining those to no avail on many occasion.
Sad.
----- Alain Hebert ahebert@pubnix.net PubNIX Inc. 50 boul. St-Charles P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7 Tel: 514-990-5911 http://www.pubnix.net Fax: 514-990-9443
On 03/05/12 21:36, Jimmy Hess wrote:
On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Justin M. Streiner <streiner@cluebyfour.org> wrote:
Admittedly we (the 'network guys') don't always make it easy for them. RFCs get obsoleted by newer RFCs, but the newer RFCs might still reference items from the original RFC, etc. This can turn into developing for something Yes, this is problematic. The preferred result should be one specification for each protocol, with references only for optional extensions.
Other common, but misguided assumptions (even in 2012): 1. You will be using IPv4. We have no idea what this IPv6 nonsense is. Looks complicated and scary. 2. 255.255.255.0 is the only valid netmask. 3. You are using Internet Explorer, and our web management interface has ActiveX controls that require you to do so. 4. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Add some additional misguided assumptions:
(5) Any IP address whose first octet is 192. or 1. is a private IP. (6) Any IP address whose first octet is not 192. is not a valid LAN IP. (7) Any IP address whose last octet is .0 is an invalid IP host address (8) Any IP address whose last octet is .255 is an invalid IP host address
(9) If my DNS service supports DNSSEC validation, even with no trust anchors
the CD and DO bits set to 1 and
support SHA1 keys and no RSA/SHA-256.
(10) Everyone enters their NTP, and AD servers by IP address, so it is best to have a textbox that only allows IPs, not hostnames.
(11) Nobody actually uses SRV records, so don't bother looking for them.
(12) Once a DNS lookup has been
it makes sense to keep
configured, it's cool to go ahead and send all queries with perform no validation; it's even cooler if I only performed, the IP never changes, so this in memory until we reboot.
(13) Nobody has more than 1
recursive DNS server, 1 NTP server, 1
LDAP server, 1 Syslog server, and 1 Snmp management station; so a single IP entry text box for each will suffice.
(14) Nobody has more than 2 recursive DNS servers, so just allow only 2 to be entered.
(15) 30 seconds per resolver seems like a good timeout for DNS queries, so no need for a configurable timeout; just try each server sequentially, make the UI hang, the user will be happy to wait 5 minutes; also make the service provided by the device temporarily stop -- users likes it when their devices stop working, to remind them to get their first DNS server back up.
(16) The default gateway's IP address is always 192.168.0.1 (17) The user portion of E-mail addresses never contain special characters like "-" "+" "$" "~" "." ",", "[", "]"
jms -- -JH