On Tue, 31 Aug 2021, 03:08 Owen DeLong, <owen@delong.com> wrote:


On Aug 30, 2021, at 16:19 , Noah <noah@neo.co.tz> wrote:


Owen,

On Tue, 31 Aug 2021, 02:10 Owen DeLong via NANOG, <nanog@nanog.org> wrote:


> On Aug 30, 2021, at 07:44 , Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 8/30/21 16:19, Owen DeLong via NANOG wrote:
>
>> You may not like Lu and/or his business model. I’m not a fan of his business model myself, but it is technically permitted under existing policy.
>
> And yet you continue to work for and support him in this capacity.

Yes… Because it is permitted by the rules as they exist.

Cloud Innovation your employer is in the business of leasing IPv4 addresses in Asia, USA and Europe etc.

Not my employer, my client.

AFRINIC has never permitted this and Ashil from AFRINIC publicly stated as such in the below archived thread.

Yet their policies do not prohibit it.

AFRINIC policies are developed by the community in-line with AFRINIC constitution and related RSA is signed by resource members in-line with the AFRINIC constitution which enshrines the objectives of AFRINIC as the RIR for Africa region.

If you can find someplace where it is actually documented as a violation of policy, then by
all means, provide that, but you have so far failed to do so despite repeatedly bringing up this argument.

I will quote from the AFRINIC bylaws (constution) here https://afrinic.net/bylaws/

3.4) The Company shall have, both within and outside the Republic of Mauritius, full capacity to carry and/or undertake any business or activity, including but not limited to the following objects:

  1. to provide the service of allocating and registering Internet resources for the purposes of enabling communications via open system network protocols and to assist in the development and growth of the Internet in the African region;
  2. to promote the representation of AFRINIC membership and the Internet community of the African region by ensuring open and transparent communication and consensus-driven decision-making processes;
  3. to promote responsible management of Internet resources throughout the African region, as well as the responsible development and operation of Internet infrastructures;       

It’s simply not sufficient to say “they never allowed this” if it’s not prohibited by actual policy.


Allocation policies are such that resource members abide by the AFRINIC constitution.

See above section 3.4 and the relevant subsections that refer to management of number resource in reference to Africa region.




You always claim policy blah blah blah in your defence of Cloud Innovation Ltd and Larus business model.

But there it is. AFRINIC has never approved any IPv4 space for purposes of leasing them for money as through they were a product.

Except that they have and do every day… ISPs all lease IPv4 space for money. That’s what they do with them. They certainly don’t use
them exclusively on their own networks… They lease them to their customers.

AFRINIC has never approved IPv4 for purposes of leasing. There is a public statement to this effect.


The key difference between the majority of them and Cloud Innovation is that most of them also include connectivity service in the lease
and/or provide the lease in conjunction with some form of connectivity service. However, there’s nothing in the policy manual or the bylaws
to support a requirement that leasing and connectivity be tied to each other.

What justification did Cloud Innovation provide to AFRINIC when requesting for those millions of IPs?

Cheers
Noah


Owen