| ... QoS just doesn't seem to fit in the same phrase as "phone company" Au contraire. Phone companies, especially monopolistic ones, absolutely LOVE QoS and higher-than-strictly-needed quality standards for applications BECAUSE they are tremendously expensive. There is no better way to exclude competiton than by developing a regime in which authorities enforce artificial and costly standards compliance. Whether it's in the name of "consumer protection" or "protection of the network", this type of thing is simply what phone companies _do_. What phone companies try to avoid is simple, straightforward approaches which are not control-oriented, and which "anyone" can do. Sometimes they can't even accept that the simple approaches are possible. "Gosh, there's no expensive magic? Then it obviously can't work!" - bellthink. Cynically, Sean. ps - can you tell i've worked at the isp arms of phone companies?