Your analogies suck for two reasons: 1: take a look at the huge problems apple is having with quality control and returns on the ibooks. They've finally started admitting there's a problem (after months and months of consumer outrage) http://www.apple.com/support/ibook/faq/ 2: VW build quality control and reliability sucks as well. Theres a long list of problems every Jetta owner will eventually see. Most are not covered by a recall or other warranty replacement. I can only imagine the problems the Toureg owners will be seeing in a brand new platform. Not to mention that most VW dealers are raging crooks, and VWOA does nothing to stop or discourage their theft and fraud. http://matt.ethereal.net/ggvw/ As an iBook owner, and a VW owner, I can say with authority that I'd think twice before making another Apple or VW purchase. The moral of the story is that theres always a downside, and you should take any evangelist's schpiel with a giant salt lick. matto On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, Jason Lixfeld wrote: Agreed. That's where you educate your mom on why Macs are godly, PCs running windows are evil and Linux is a little to complex still for the end user, and bluntly doesn't look as pretty out of the box. [...] (hypothetical) Buy the $12,000.00 (CDN) KIA with no snow tires, no ABS, no nothing. Drive somewhere in a snow storm, get stuck going up a hill, try to back down the hill, get sideswiped by the guy in the Touareg because he can't see your tiny little $12,000.00 KIA soap box, get flung over the guardrail, down the hill and into the valley. Pay the tow truck to come bail your ass out, pay your insurance deductible and the extra rates you are going to ensue because you just wrote off your car. Add all that up and compare that to the price of a brand new Touareg over 10 years. Guess what, your analogy just lost ground :) --mghali@snark.net------------------------------------------<darwin>< Flowers on the razor wire/I know you're here/We are few/And far between/I was thinking about her skin/Love is a many splintered thing/Don't be afraid now/Just walk on in. #include <disclaim.h>