Lots of old and dear friends in NANOG to say HELLO!, it has been many, many years since I've posted here. Hopefully this very simply question will not be very controversial :) I did a search of the archives on VPN with keywords 'size' and 'mesh' only to find a thread debating the merits of MPLS. This was an interested thread and some of my old and dear friends were active in that discussion. Please allow me to ask a simple less-technical question. My apologies if this has been discussed and I missed it in the archives. We have a Cisco IPSEC based VPN with over 110 edge routers in a full tunnel-mode mesh, mostly 'big hunking routers' with average CPU utilization under 15 percent. The VPN is controlled by a single organization, under centralized admin. Are there larger fully meshed VPNs out there in ISP land? Are there any 'real-tangible issues' with a fully meshed VPN at the size we are talking (around 120 sites fully meshed)? The marketing hype tends to be great. I like -vadim's closing comments in: http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/2001-08/msg00311.html as follows: "Sometimes older ways are simply better." --vadim This seems to be true regarding a simple fully-meshed IPSEC VPN in tunnel-mode, right NANOG geniuses? Is 110 fulled meshed edge routers considered big?? Finest Regards, Tim www.silkroad.com