The download/upload in our residential/business eyeball network has been trending a 95th-percentile based ratio of 9:1. If I look at a higher-ed customer of ours who has symmetric service and has a young demographic the average ratio is 11:1 and the peak ratio 8.8:1. So despite access to symmetric speeds, they're not showing a distinctively heavier symmetricity. Frank -----Original Message----- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Mark Andrews Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 4:57 PM To: Scott Helms Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: symmetric vs. asymmetric [was: Verizon Policy Statement on Net Neutrality] <snip> Averages hide the peak demands. The last mile should handle the peak demands. Further upstream you get the over subscription savings. Looking at averages and saying that they define the needs limits is *bad* engineering. For POTS you would get a few hertz if you did that. The averaging of POTS comes once you combine multiple sources together at the exchange. Even then you look at the peak periods not the daily average. Asymetry is pushing oversubscription too close to the consumer. It is a undesirable but sometimes necessary trade off. Asymetry traffic volumes don't mean asymetric speeds are desirable. <snip> Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org