You can't logically, in the same e-mail talk about Cisco wanting to dominate a new/growing market (e.g. would account for new jobs, new stuff, new monies previously unseen) and then talk about Bush (or whomever) getting money from this and not caring therefore screwing US workers. If it's a new market, nobody is getting screwed. There are certainly no rules saying that every sale that Cisco (or any other US-based company) makes must flow through American hands. That would be absurd. If it were growing or supplementing existing business in the US where they deliberately go in and lay off US workers in order to bring on workers in other countries, then THAT is the part where you may be upset about this. Outsourcing may indeed be a problem in some aspects and some industries, but (IMHO) THIS particular announcement about playing by the necessary political rules and seeking to establish a firm hold in a new/growing market doesn't even come close to the issues that you seem to be complaining about. So please, if you're going to try to bring politics into the thread and blame it on whoever (which the particular administration really has nothing to impact this one way or the other) then stick with some semblance of logic that follows all the way through. Personally, I don't like the concept of certain types of outsourcing where jobs are indeed lost to save a buck or two. But I think that too many people go off the "logical deep-end" on what items fall into this category and soon we are looking at McCarty's tactics for deciding the conforming or non-conforming which is not a good idea. Someone in a previous e-mail mentioned someone's law about annihilating this thread. While I don't know whose law that was I hope whatever it is takes effect soon because the sky really is not falling. Scott -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Henry Linneweh Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 1:42 PM To: Alexei Roudnev; Paul Jakma; Robin Lynn Frank Cc: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Re: Cisco moves even more to china. The only event that is driving this, is Cisco wants to dominate the Chinese market and the only way to sell in China is to manufacture product there, using their people to manufacture, that is how the game is played there and for the chinese it makes sense, considering the government there has has around 1.3 billion people to care for. The lack of understanding here is that Americans need to be cared for to, with economy that providers us with a sense of financial security. The problem centers around jobs now being promoted for poltical purposes as jobs, when you focus on these jobs, you will discover they are not living wage jobs and certainly not jobs that provide for intelligent people staffing them. The other issue that fits into this problem, is the Bush administration gets $1.12 for every dollar earned offshore from any product, so it basically doesn't care, since it keeps the US government solvent, while the rest of us get flushed down the tubes. Making matter's worse is the fact, that executives that support the Bush administration with outsourcing offshore, are financial rewards and tax incentrives that make it attractive to do so. If you don't like the politics of what is happening to you change it in November and work to turn our country around and preserve our friendships globally in the process. My 2 cents -henry