On Jan 11, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Michael Loftis wrote:
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote: <snip>
There are multiple purposes to /48s to residential end users.
DHCP-PD allows a lot of future innovations not yet available.
Imagine a house where the border router receives a /48 from the ISP and delegates /64s or /60s or whatever to other routers within the house.
Each home entertainment cluster may be one group of networks with its own router.
The appliance network(s) may have their own router(s).
RFID tags on groceries may lead to a time when your home automation server can gather up data from your refrigerator, pantries, etc. and present the inventory on your mobile phone while you're at the grocery store. No more need to maintain a shopping list, just query the inventory from the store.
These are just the things that could easily be done with the technology we already know about. Imagine what we might think of once we get more used to having prefix abundance. <snip>
Having more address space won't help most of these uses, and as for why, take a look at the proposed situation with for example home media
Yes, it will...
serving/sharing systems by TiVo, Apple, etc. They all require that the units be within the same broadcast domain or that there be a configured bridge of some sort if they even allow that topology. They
That is the current state of the art which is the direct result of the lack of address space and the lack of the features I am describing making this absolutely necessarily.
(actually rightfully) assume that the network topology is flat, single broadcast domain, and mroe and more use Multicast DNS (which I've seen
Yes, that assumption is valid today. Future technology can change that assumption in useful and meaningful ways.
called a bunch of different things) More to the point, your average home user can not technically fathom anything more complicated than "plug it in" -- and many begin to fail to set something up properly when its extended to something as complicated as "plug it in, push a button" or "plug it in, type some numbers into the device"
DHCP-PD will allow for hierarchical topology that is not more complicated than "plug it in". No button push, no typing something in. Literally plug it in.
Your average home user has no reason at all for anything more than a PtP to his/her gateway, and a single prefix routed to that gateway.
Correct. I'm just saying that prefix should be a /48 so that the gateway can work with the other gateways inside the house to designate the best topology within the house. Note, this is all automated. It doesn't require the end-user to actually do anything other than plug it in.
There are most certainly a few (which includes I'm sure 99% of the NANOGers!) subscribers who can and will use more space than that, and ISPs most definitely should make /48s readily and easily available for those customers, but giving each and every customer a /48 (or really, even a pair of /64s, one for the PtP, one delegated) is almost certainly overkill. The devices won't use the extra space unless
That is today only thinking. Toss out your IPv4 scarcity-based assumptions about what is possible. IPv6 does have new features and new capabilities that we are just beginning to consider.
there's some automagic way of them communicating the desire to eachother, and appropriately configuring themselves, and it would have to be very widely accepted. But there's no technical gain. A typical
It's called DHCPv6-PD and it already exists. That's the point!!
household would probably have less than about 50, maybe 100 devices, even if we start networking appliances like toasters, hair dryers and every single radio, tv, and light switch.
It's not about the number of devices. That's IPv4-think. It's about the number of segments. I see a world where each home-entertainment cluster would be a separate segment (today, few things use IP, but, future HE solutions will include Monitors, Amps, Blu-Ray players, and other Media gateways that ALL have ethernet ports for control and software update). The kitchen appliances would probably have their own segment. A refrigerator or pantry may have a front-end router that separates the household backbone from the network interfacing all the RFIDs contained within the device. I'm sure there are other examples where automated segmentation of the network can, does, and will make sense. We're just starting to explore this. The point is to have address delegation policies which don't interfere with this development.
Just my 2 cents worth.
I'll see your $0.02 and raise you $0.48 ;-) Owen