Alan, Thank you for the objective response. It seems that there is room for multiple perspectives on this topic. I take my new volvo to the local equivalent of "Joe's Garage" for regular (3000 mile) service. Joe is not volvo certified, but they do let me watch over their shoulder to make sure everything is perfect. The service is a fraction of the cost. If there was a mistake in service, they only ask for their cost for the parts to rectify the mistake (This is the 6th car that I've taken to "Joe's Garage".) However I do take the car to Volvo for the 30000 mile service interval (which, in fact, contains no service, only diagnostics). If Volvo finds a problem, I'll take it back to Joe's Garage for the actual repair. I see your perspective on the HR department. HR probably deals with dozens of applicants and the certification is an easy pass/fail evaluation method. However, IMHO, there are probably many expertly qualified candidates that have no paper but are more qualified than the paper CCNA. Regards, Christopher J. Wolff, VP CIO Broadband Laboratories http://www.bblabs.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Rowland, Alan D Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 12:00 PM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: RE: Certification or College degrees? Was: RE: list problems? While the effectiveness of degree requirements may be argued, they are efficient. When your HR department gets hundreds or thousands of applications, they need some way to find the wheat. The net sector is young and was mostly immune to traditional business practices. Not all traditional business practices are bad (see dot.bomb). Lack of business acumen means the days of six figure income and significant stock options because there were 10 job openings for every geek who could RTFM are over. Even though the "job market is coming back" there's still 20 'techies' in Birkenstocks and Star Wars t-shirts for every (decent) job hiring. Everything else being equal (which is often the case) a cert or degree is a great tie-breaker. Welcome to the traditional job market fellow geeks. Remember all the jokes about Sanitation Engineers? ;) Put another way, when you take that expensive car of yours in for service (you do have one if you're successful in this industry, right? ;) ), do you go to Joe's Garage (apologies to all named Joe) or a dealer/service center with "certified" mechanics? Just my 2ยข. The delete key is your friend. Best regards, _________________________________________ Alan Rowland (BS in Business and Management, UofM, 1990 "no warranty expressed or implied, use at your own risk, may be terminated at any time without notice" -----Original Message----- From: Christopher J. Wolff [mailto:chris@bblabs.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 11:16 AM To: nanog@merit.edu Subject: Certification or College degrees? Was: RE: list problems? I would add to that statement: Requiring a technology certification is equally as obsurd. I've been told I could pass the Emperor-Level CCIE test; however, I do not believe it will add more value for my customers. Regards, Christopher J. Wolff, VP CIO Broadband Laboratories http://www.bblabs.com Andrew Dorsett said: *jumping on my soap box* I have to say that the idea of requiring a degree for the IT industry is obsurd.