Well, an iLEC CO is hardly a data center. Plus you have to be a CLEC to get in.

I’ve built out CLEC spaces in many COs. They invariably connect via fiber to a CLEC core data center, where they invariably run their own GPS clocks. Plus they run rubidium clocks in the racks at the CO, so they can freewheel for days.

-mel via cell

On Aug 8, 2023, at 11:21 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:


Frontier COs is the easiest example.No antennas and no time service. Yes, they provide BITS, but BITS isn't time.

I was also speaking specifically about installing GPS antennas in viable places, not using a facility-provided GPS or NTP service.



-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel@beckman.org>
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org, "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:36:46 AM
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

I’d be interested in an example of a Colo that does NOT provide GPS-based NTP even if they don’t let tenants install their own. I’ve never, ever seen one.

 -mel

On Aug 8, 2023, at 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:


My facility experience ranges from prohibited to infeasible. I must not be in the right facilities.


Yes, many radio platforms have GPS for timing. Some expose it for external time and timing purposes, some do not. Naturally, they do have a pretty good view of the sky.

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel@beckman.org>
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org, "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 10:05:55 AM
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

It works fine, and is an industry standard. you have to mount the GPS antenna near a window with sky visibility, or on the roof. Many point-to-point microwave radios have GPS built in to obtain accurate timing for transmission multiplexing.

 -mel

On Aug 8, 2023, at 7:16 AM, Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:


"We use these exclusively in data centers"

How well does GPS work inside the datacenter?

From: "Mel Beckman" <mel@beckman.org>
To: "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Saturday, August 5, 2023 2:26:37 PM
Subject: Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Mark,

You might consider setting up your own GPS-based NTP network. Commercial Ethernet GPS-sourced NTP servers, such as the Time Machines, TM1000A, are as little as $400. Or you can roll your own using a Raspberry Pi or similar nano computer with a GPS module and antenna. We use these exclusively in data centers now rather than depending on Internet NTP servers, primarily for security, because financial transactions in e-commerce can be sensitive to false time information. There are also a variety of NTP-based Internet attacks, so if you can block NTP at your border you’ve eliminated another attack surface.

-mel via cell

> On Aug 5, 2023, at 11:22 AM, Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote:
>
> 
>
>> On 8/5/23 20:17, Chris Adams wrote:
>>
>> It's the NTP pool people you need to talk to - the .freebsd. bit is just
>> a vendored entry into the pool (more for load tracking and management).
>
> Yes, Andreas clarified in unicast. Will do. Thanks.
>
> Mark.