Actually, these problems are economical and business model problems. Socio went out in 97/98. If not sooner. Regards, -- Martin Hannigan (c) 617-388-2663 VeriSign, Inc. (w) 703-948-7018 <http://www.verisign.com/> -----Original Message----- From: owner-nanog@merit.edu <owner-nanog@merit.edu> To: nanog <nanog@merit.edu> Sent: Mon Jun 14 16:23:48 2004 Subject: Re: "Default" Internet Service AL> Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:57:21 -0500 (CDT) AL> From: Adi Linden AL> Who do you suppose pays for the abuse department staff? Those AL> are operational costs passed on to all customers. Unless one does nothing, in which case the cost goes to the rest of the world. I'd rather take on a handful of infected users and hosts on the inside than deal with crud from the rest of the world. Yet another slew of NANOG threads with hundreds of posts that boil down to sociotechnical issues and how to shift the costs to the guilty parties. Eddy -- EverQuick Internet - http://www.everquick.net/ A division of Brotsman & Dreger, Inc. - http://www.brotsman.com/ Bandwidth, consulting, e-commerce, hosting, and network building Phone: +1 785 865 5885 Lawrence and [inter]national Phone: +1 316 794 8922 Wichita _________________________________________________________________ DO NOT send mail to the following addresses : blacklist@brics.com -or- alfra@intc.net -or- curbjmp@intc.net Sending mail to spambait addresses is a great way to get blocked.