On Tue, 10 May 2011, Frank Bulk wrote: :: If I can anticipate Igor's response, he'll say that he'll whitelist those :: IPv6-only networks and so he's just help 182,000 people. That's a very good guess as to what I was going to say :) -igor :: -----Original Message----- :: From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen@delong.com] :: Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 1:23 PM :: To: Igor Gashinsky :: Cc: nanog@nanog.org :: Subject: Re: Yahoo and IPv6 :: :: On May 10, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Igor Gashinsky wrote: :: :: > On Tue, 10 May 2011, Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu wrote: :: > :: > :: On Tue, 10 May 2011 02:17:46 EDT, Igor Gashinsky said: :: > :: :: > :: > The time for finger-pointing is over, period, all we are all trying :: to do :: > :: > now is figure out how to deal with the present (sucky) situation. The :: :: > :: > current reality is that for a non-insignificant percentage of users :: when :: > :: > you enable dual-stack, they are gong to drop off the face of the :: planet. :: > :: > Now, for *you*, 0.026% may be insignificant (and, standalone, that :: number :: > :: > is insignificant), but for a global content provider that has ~700M :: users, :: > :: > that's 182 *thousand* users that *you*, *through your actions* just :: took :: > :: > out.. 182,000 - that is *not* insignificant :: > :: :: > :: At any given instant, there's a *lot* more than 182,000 users who are :: cut off :: > :: due to various *IPv4* misconfigurations and issues. :: > :: > Yes, but *these* 182,000 users have perfectly working ipv4 connectivity, :: > and you are asking *me* to break them through *my* actions. Sorry, that's :: > simply too many to break for me, without a damn good reason to do so. :: > :: In other words, Igor can't turn on AAAA records generally until there are :: 182,001 IPv6-only users that are broken from his lack of AAAA records. :: :: Given IP address consumption rates in Asia and the lack of available IPv4 :: resources in Asia, with a traditional growth month to month of nearly :: 30 million IPv4 addresses consumed, I suspect it will not be long before :: the 182,001 broken IPv6 users become relevant. :: :: > Doing that on world ipv6 day, when there is a lot of press, and most other :: :: > large content players doing the same, *is* a good reason - it may actually :: :: > has a shot of accomplishing some good, since it may get those users to :: > realize that they are broken, and fix their systems, but outside of flag :: > day, if I enabled AAAA by default for all users, all I'm going to do is :: > send those "broken" users to my competitors who chose not to enable AAAA :: > on their sites. :: > :: Agreed. I think IPv6 day is a great plan for this very reason. I also hope :: that :: a lot of organizations that try things out on IPv6 day will decide that the :: brokenness that has been so hyped wasn't actually noticeable and then :: leave their AAAA records in place. I do not expect Yahoo or Google to :: be among them, but, hopefully a lot of other organizations will do so. :: :: > This is why I think automatic, measurement-based whitelisting/blacklisting :: :: > to minimize the collateral damage of enabling AAAA is going to be :: > inevitable (with the trigger set to something around 99.99%), and about :: > the only way we see wide-scale IPv6 adoption by content players, outside :: > events like world ipv6 day. :: > :: This will be interesting. Personally, I think it will be more along the :: lines :: of when there are more IPv6 only eye-balls with broken IPv4 than there :: are IPv4 eye-balls with broken IPv6, AAAA will become the obvious :: solution. :: :: In my opinion, this is just a matter of time and will happen much sooner :: than :: I think most people anticipate. :: :: Owen :: ::