On Friday, May 15, 1998 11:57 PM, Chris A. Icide[SMTP:chris@abs.net] wrote: @At 08:59 PM 5/15/98 -0400, Kim Hubbard wrote: @>> @>> Jeremiah Kristal wrote: @ @<snip> @ @>> ARIN has made a slight change to make it easier for them to make more @>> money by allowing anyone to register for IPs. They will assign a /20 and @>> reserve the adjacent /20... @>> @ @<snip> @ @>ARIN just can't win with some people :-) If we don't change policy, we're @>evil....if we do, we're greedy. *sigh* @> @ @If I remember correctly (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), ARIN is a @Non-profit organization. This classification generally means something to @the effect that they can't make more money. @ It is not clear that ARIN can continue to qualify as a non-profit company because they are engaged in an activity that other companies carry on for-profit. Also, as you can see here, break-even does not define non-profit. http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/prod/bus_info/eo/index.html http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/prod/bus_info/eo/bus-orgs.html @@@@ http://www.irs.ustreas.gov/prod/bus_info/eo/bl-req.html "No part of its net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual and it may not be organized for profit or organized to engage in an activity ordinarily carried on for profit (even if the business is operated on a cooperative basis or produces only sufficient income to be self-sustaining)." @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @So, if they begin taking in more revenues due to an increased use of thier @services, they must either spend those revenues, or reduce the price of the @services. @ @Of course increased usage might mean that they may have to add more @hardware/Software/People, etc. @ @<here is where I may be seriously wrong, however....> @ @I do believe that members have a say into how this is resolved, by acting @through one of the governing boards? @ @ @-Chris @ I suggest that you review some actual results from APNIC which ARIN was supposedly modeled from. ARIN seems reluctant to post any real financial information. http://teckla.apnic.net/annual_reports/1997/resource_status.htm#c4_1 http://teckla.apnic.net/annual_reports/1997/financial_status.htm#c3_3 After reviewing this information it should be clear that a non-profit can spend a lot of money on salaries, travel and other expenses (such as $50,000 to the IANA) to offset income. Also, in the case of APNIC, money was spent to subsidize the APRICOT trade-show and people in the Registry Industry were paid via that vehicle, yet APNIC claims it is non-profit (or at least it was). APNIC is now planning to move to Australia and it appears will be for-profit. If you would like to make an estimate of ARIN's revenues here is more information. @http://www.isi.edu/in-notes/imr/ @ARIN Status Report @------------------ @ @ January February March @ @ /24's Issued 2176 3265 5547 @ ASNs Issued 26 60 85 @ Estimated First Quarter Totals /24s - 10,988 - $858,437 ASNs - 171 - $85,500 Total Estimated Revenue - $943,937 This is based on 32 /24s for $2,500 and $500 per ASN. No $1,000 membership fees are included. With 16 employees, this amounts to $58,996 revenue per employee. Assuming no growth, that is $235,984 per employee on an annual basis. ===== - Jim Fleming Unir Corporation - http://www.unir.net IPv8 - Designed for the Rest of the Human Race AM Radio Stations ---> http://www.DOT.AM