Chicago is a fairly major POP that *MAY* very well have waves right to other major POPs. Can you retest from a *not* major POP? They're not likely to have a wave from Indy, St. Louis, Des Moines, etc. going to Paris, Singapore, Helsinki, Budapest, etc. Then you could *maybe* determine if it's a wave or MPLS. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "PAUL R BARFORD" <pb@cs.wisc.edu> To: "Lukas Tribus" <lukas@ltri.eu> Cc: "Esteban Carisimo" <esteban.carisimo@northwestern.edu>, nanog@nanog.org, "Fabian E. Bustamante" <fabianb@cs.northwestern.edu> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 11:17:18 PM Subject: Re: Long hops on international paths Please find the examples for the case of Telia below. FROM jfk-us (jfk-us.team-probing.c008820.20201002.warts.gz) traceroute from 216.66.30.102 (Ark probe hosted in New York City, NY, US. No AS info found) to 223.114.235.32 (MAXMIXD: Turpan, CN) 1 216.66.30.101 0.365 ms 2 62.115.49.173 3.182 ms 3 * 4 62.115.137.59 17.453 ms [x] (chi-b23-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 5 62.115.117.48 59.921 ms [x] (sea-b2-link.ip.twelve99.net., RIPE-IPMAP -> Seattle, WA, US) 6 62.115.171.221 69.993 ms 7 223.120.6.53 69.378 ms 8 223.120.12.34 226.225 ms 9 221.183.55.110 237.475 ms 10 221.183.25.201 238.697 ms 11 221.176.16.213 242.296 ms 12 221.183.36.62 352.695 ms 13 221.183.39.2 300.166 ms 14 117.191.8.118 316.270 ms 15 * 16 * 17 * 18 * 19 * FROM ord-us (ord-us.team-probing.c008820.20201002.warts.gz) traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at Depaul University-AS20120) to 109.25.215.237 (237.215.25.109.rev.sfr.net., MAXMIXD: La Crau, FR) 1 140.192.218.129 0.795 ms 2 140.192.9.124 0.603 ms 3 64.124.44.158 1.099 ms 4 64.125.31.172 3.047 ms 5 * 6 64.125.15.65 1.895 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 7 62.115.118.59 99.242 ms [x] (prs-b3-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Paris, FR) 8 62.115.154.23 105.214 ms 9 77.136.10.6 119.021 ms 10 77.136.10.6 118.830 ms 11 80.118.89.202 118.690 ms 12 80.118.89.234 118.986 ms 13 109.24.108.66 119.159 ms 14 109.25.215.237 126.085 ms traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at Depaul University-AS20120) to 84.249.89.93 (dsl-tkubng12-54f959-93.dhcp.inet.fi., MAXMIXD: Turku, FI) 1 140.192.218.129 0.243 ms 2 140.192.9.124 0.326 ms 3 64.124.44.158 0.600 ms 4 * 5 * 6 64.125.15.65 1.792 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 7 62.115.123.27 121.199 ms [x] (hls-b4-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Helsinki, FI) 8 * 9 141.208.193.190 127.723 ms 10 84.249.89.93 139.051 ms traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US) to 193.28.231.50 (MAXMIXD: None, HU) 1 140.192.218.129 0.240 ms 2 140.192.9.124 0.333 ms 3 64.124.44.158 0.648 ms 4 * 5 64.125.25.75 0.752 ms 6 64.125.15.65 1.877 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 7 62.115.119.39 123.952 ms [x] (bpt-b2-link.ip.twelve99.net., **I suspect it is in Budapest, HU**) 8 62.115.39.122 117.171 ms 9 88.151.96.148 117.202 ms 10 88.151.96.213 124.787 ms 11 * 12 * 13 * 14 * 15 * traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at Depaul University-AS20120) to 152.195.4.11 (MAXMIXD: Los Angeles, CA, US) 1 140.192.218.129 0.224 ms 2 140.192.9.124 0.545 ms 3 64.124.44.158 0.640 ms 4 * 5 * 6 64.125.15.65 1.786 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 7 62.115.118.247 54.597 ms [x] (las-b22-link.ip.twelve99.net., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Los Angeles, CA, US) 8 62.115.11.129 55.979 ms 9 * 10 * 11 * 12 * 13 * traceroute from 140.192.218.138 (Ark probe hosted in Chicago, IL, US at Depaul University-AS20120) to 47.31.143.217 (MAXMIXD: Delhi, IN) 1 140.192.218.129 2.277 ms 2 140.192.9.124 0.449 ms 3 64.124.44.158 0.576 ms 4 * 5 * 6 64.125.15.65 1.814 ms [x] (zayo.telia.ter1.ord7.us.zip.zayo.com., CAIDA-GEOLOC -> Chicago, IL, US) 7 62.115.114.41 210.056 ms [x] (snge-b5-link.ip.twelve99.net.,) 8 62.115.177.11 200.840 ms 9 103.198.140.16 233.636 ms 10 103.198.140.16 232.871 ms 11 103.198.140.171 232.648 ms 12 * 13 * 14 * 15 * 16 * From: Lukas Tribus <lukas@ltri.eu> Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 1:52 PM To: PAUL R BARFORD <pb@cs.wisc.edu> Cc: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>; nanog@nanog.org <nanog@nanog.org>; Esteban Carisimo <esteban.carisimo@northwestern.edu>; Fabian E. Bustamante <fabianb@cs.northwestern.edu> Subject: Re: Long hops on international paths On Mon, 17 Jan 2022 at 20:00, PAUL R BARFORD <pb@cs.wisc.edu> wrote:
What we're curious about is why we're seeing a concentration of hops at a small number of routers that appear on international paths.
I suggest you share a few actual examples (IP addresses, traceroutes). I don't think discussing your conclusion based on data we don't have makes sense. Lukas