the IPPM effort within the Benchmark Methodology Working Group is working on "IP Performance Metrics" which apply to large IP networks viewed as the "device-under-test" and not "provider metrics" per se. (I say this as the both the Co-Area Director and the AD responsible for the working group.) understanding the performance of complex networks IS a very much unsolved problems. people are thrashing around taking whatever measurements they can think of with hopes of generating SOME kind of understanding. I don't blame them at all - there isn't much else to do right this instant. all this means, though, is that folks concerned with the problem need to participate in the BMWG efforts. there is a lot of work to do here and with some luck, we may do some science to the point of developing some understanding about how to measure and characterize these beasts we've built. A lot has been done in characterizing performance of network elements, so now we need to draw a bigger circle around what we're testing but still apply significant rigor and good experimental methodology so the data will be meaningful. yours for more consistent confusion, -mo