My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile? I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP
Find a friend with the service instead of subscribing. On Sat, Aug 30, 2025, 4:21 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile?
I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/TXUNX4V5...
Sure, but then I have to bother other people. That's what I'm doing now, but it kinda sucks asking someone else to help you with your job. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> To: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 3:25:22 PM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Find a friend with the service instead of subscribing. On Sat, Aug 30, 2025, 4:21 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org > wrote: My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile? I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/TXUNX4V5...
Get a Colo space somewhere so you can get inexpensive DIA handoffs and then pipe the various ISP circuits back your office over GRE tunneling. I’m not sure where you could get really cheap rack space but I’ve heard one such Colo operator’s pronoun is HE :) -mel via cell
On Aug 30, 2025, at 1:26 PM, Josh Luthman via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
Find a friend with the service instead of subscribing.
On Sat, Aug 30, 2025, 4:21 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile?
I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/TXUNX4V5...
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/2VW2KSIG...
Hit me up offline. I have reasonable rates for 1U+1amp + IPv6 Jonathan Kalbfeld office: +1 310 317 7933 fax: +1 310 317 7901 home: +1 310 317 7909 mobile: +1 310 227 1662 ThoughtWave Technologies, Inc. Studio City, CA 91604 https://thoughtwave.com View our network at https://bgp.he.net/AS54380 +1 844 42-LINUX
On Aug 30, 2025 at 1:54 PM, Mel Beckman via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
Get a Colo space somewhere so you can get inexpensive DIA handoffs and then pipe the various ISP circuits back your office over GRE tunneling. I’m not sure where you could get really cheap rack space but I’ve heard one such Colo operator’s pronoun is HE :)
-mel via cell
On Aug 30, 2025, at 1:26 PM, Josh Luthman via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
Find a friend with the service instead of subscribing.
On Sat, Aug 30, 2025, 4:21 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile?
I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/TXUNX4V5...
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/2VW2KSIG...
NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/HU7AILFJ...
Could you leverage the RIPE Atlas probe infrastructure to give you the answers you need? There are probes on Comcast (868), Frontier (15), AT&T (46), Verizon (54), T-mobile (29). What types of troubleshooting do you generally need to do? Matt On Sat, Aug 30, 2025 at 1:53 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
Sure, but then I have to bother other people. That's what I'm doing now, but it kinda sucks asking someone else to help you with your job.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> To: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 3:25:22 PM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous?
Find a friend with the service instead of subscribing.
On Sat, Aug 30, 2025, 4:21 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org > wrote:
My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile?
I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/TXUNX4V5...
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/APBIVX7A...
Well, primarily it's the voice service that needs troubleshooting, which is harder to do in the fashion you describe. I just figured Internet service was cheap enough if you were already getting voice. Although that does give me an idea on the Internet... get a line on each and then put a Mikrotik or Raspberry Pi and a RIPE probe on each. Then anything I could likely ever want to test, including making a testing platform available to the rest of the world. That isn't a very high number of test points on each of those networks. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com> To: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>, "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 8:20:36 PM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Could you leverage the RIPE Atlas probe infrastructure to give you the answers you need? There are probes on Comcast (868), Frontier (15), AT&T (46), Verizon (54), T-mobile (29). What types of troubleshooting do you generally need to do? Matt On Sat, Aug 30, 2025 at 1:53 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org > wrote: Sure, but then I have to bother other people. That's what I'm doing now, but it kinda sucks asking someone else to help you with your job. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" < josh@imaginenetworksllc.com > To: "North American Network Operators Group" < nanog@lists.nanog.org > Cc: "Mike Hammett" < nanog@ics-il.net > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 3:25:22 PM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Find a friend with the service instead of subscribing. On Sat, Aug 30, 2025, 4:21 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org > wrote: My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile? I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/TXUNX4V5... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/APBIVX7A...
It's not necessarily a bad idea. We see odd voice stuff all the time and having lines that don't use or switch can be helpful with troubleshooting. For example, Spectrum loves to release a number (after a port out) but forget to remove it from their switch. So from the customer's point of view, "something's wrong because some people can't call me". Having one of their lines allows us the ability to troubleshoot it a lot faster and get a ticket opened. Shawn -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Hammett via NANOG" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2025 10:23am To: "Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com> Cc: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog@lists.nanog.org>, "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Well, primarily it's the voice service that needs troubleshooting, which is harder to do in the fashion you describe. I just figured Internet service was cheap enough if you were already getting voice. Although that does give me an idea on the Internet... get a line on each and then put a Mikrotik or Raspberry Pi and a RIPE probe on each. Then anything I could likely ever want to test, including making a testing platform available to the rest of the world. That isn't a very high number of test points on each of those networks. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com> To: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>, "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 8:20:36 PM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Could you leverage the RIPE Atlas probe infrastructure to give you the answers you need? There are probes on Comcast (868), Frontier (15), AT&T (46), Verizon (54), T-mobile (29). What types of troubleshooting do you generally need to do? Matt On Sat, Aug 30, 2025 at 1:53 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org > wrote: Sure, but then I have to bother other people. That's what I'm doing now, but it kinda sucks asking someone else to help you with your job. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" < josh@imaginenetworksllc.com > To: "North American Network Operators Group" < nanog@lists.nanog.org > Cc: "Mike Hammett" < nanog@ics-il.net > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 3:25:22 PM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Find a friend with the service instead of subscribing. On Sat, Aug 30, 2025, 4:21 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org > wrote: My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile? I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/TXUNX4V5... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/APBIVX7A... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/ZGE6R7O4...
*nods* and I suppose for companies whose coverage I overlap with, but don't serve my main office (such as Mediacom or Charter when I'm in Comcast land), I can get the service ordered to a willing Chamber of Commerce or something, and then drop an FXO device so that I can "be present". ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn L via NANOG" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> To: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: "Shawn L" <shawnl@up.net> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2025 9:57:06 AM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? It's not necessarily a bad idea. We see odd voice stuff all the time and having lines that don't use or switch can be helpful with troubleshooting. For example, Spectrum loves to release a number (after a port out) but forget to remove it from their switch. So from the customer's point of view, "something's wrong because some people can't call me". Having one of their lines allows us the ability to troubleshoot it a lot faster and get a ticket opened. Shawn -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Hammett via NANOG" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2025 10:23am To: "Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com> Cc: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog@lists.nanog.org>, "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Well, primarily it's the voice service that needs troubleshooting, which is harder to do in the fashion you describe. I just figured Internet service was cheap enough if you were already getting voice. Although that does give me an idea on the Internet... get a line on each and then put a Mikrotik or Raspberry Pi and a RIPE probe on each. Then anything I could likely ever want to test, including making a testing platform available to the rest of the world. That isn't a very high number of test points on each of those networks. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Petach" <mpetach@netflight.com> To: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com>, "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 8:20:36 PM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Could you leverage the RIPE Atlas probe infrastructure to give you the answers you need? There are probes on Comcast (868), Frontier (15), AT&T (46), Verizon (54), T-mobile (29). What types of troubleshooting do you generally need to do? Matt On Sat, Aug 30, 2025 at 1:53 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org > wrote: Sure, but then I have to bother other people. That's what I'm doing now, but it kinda sucks asking someone else to help you with your job. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Luthman" < josh@imaginenetworksllc.com > To: "North American Network Operators Group" < nanog@lists.nanog.org > Cc: "Mike Hammett" < nanog@ics-il.net > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2025 3:25:22 PM Subject: Re: Genius or Ridiculous? Find a friend with the service instead of subscribing. On Sat, Aug 30, 2025, 4:21 PM Mike Hammett via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org > wrote: My current project is a voice-related project, but how ridiculous would it be to get a line of service from my competitors at my main office for me to do diagnostics from? Internet from Comcast, Frontier, etc. Voice from Frontier, Comcast, AT&T wireless, VZW, and T-Mobile? I'm currently in a situation where I have to engage customers (or the family of employees) to place test calls for me to collect data on because I can't do it any other way. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/TXUNX4V5... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/APBIVX7A... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/ZGE6R7O4... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/MWYKRHMX...
participants (6)
-
Jonathan Kalbfeld -
Josh Luthman -
Matthew Petach -
Mel Beckman -
Mike Hammett -
Shawn L