No. I don't think it is ethically questionable. Each relay has started with NOQUEUE log entries. The relayer is telneting to port 25, and getting the following message: telnet odie 25 Trying 198.3.136.141... Connected to odie.av8.com. Escape character is '^]'. 220-odie.av8.com ESMTP Sendmail; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:53:11 -0500 (EST) 220-Authorized Users Only 220-Notice: Unauthorized use billed at $1 per message, $10 per bounce, 220-$90/hr for cleanup. 220 Unauthorized use over $5000 defined as criminal by 18 USC 1030(6). Around 11:38 PM 11/22/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Daniel Golding said:
Dean,
Have you considered that, while your stand may be legally correct, it is ethically questionable? By leaving your relays open, you invite abuse and facilitate the theft of other networks' resources. I can not imagine what legitimate purpose you might have for such a practice. Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this is your steady beat on the drum of law and order, combined with your strange zeal to block out IP addresses from a large block of law abiding folks.
I can only wish you luck in your endevour to have Federal law enforcement officials deliver warrant on international spammers. Clearly, those folks don't have enough to do, and need the extra work.
- Daniel Golding
On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Dean Anderson wrote:
These are coming from Mass, Cleveland, Ohio, and Virginia.
We use our relays for legitimate business purposes. They are not "accidentally left open". We are not going to close them. We are going to pursue abusers civilly and criminally. The FBI assures me that it does not matter criminally that access comes from international sources.
Much of the activity appears to be comming from alleged ANTI-SPAMMERs such as Chris Neill, and Alan Brown and Ron Guillemette who have been inciting attacks against us, posting to alt.2600 and advertising our service. Inciting criminal acts is a criminal act too, I'm pretty sure. We make sure to mention them prominently.
--Dean
Around 11:18 PM 11/21/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Kai Schlichting said:
At 09:16 PM 11/21/99 -0500, Dean Anderson wrote:
Can someone send me a list of *all* AOL netblocks? ARIN's whois only gives back a handful.
I want to block _all_ AOL netblocks, but its tough to find out what they are.
Thanks to a few malicious, radical antispammers (Chris Neill, Alan Brown, etc) we are getting hit with a large number of criminal mail relays. Mostly coming from AOL addresses. We have about a half dozen individual criminal complaints underway.
Don't kid us, Dan. Close your fucking relays (not that any of them talk to my hosts anyhow). If this has to be drummed into your bonehead again: THEY WILL FIND YOUR RELAYS ON THEIR OWN, AND THEY WILL ABUSE THEM, NO MATTER HOW LOUD YOU SCREAM. THEY SIT IN CHINA, PAKISTAN AND KOREA, AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THEM SHORT OF CALLING THE WHITEHOUSE AND GETTING THESE PLACES INVADED. Alternatively, you could come to your senses and shut the literal front door of your house now that you've finally noticed the first unsavory characters passing by. A couple years after the rest of us, no doubt.
And they won't need ORBS or any other service to locate you, either. Stop complaining. No more secrets (now that's from Scott Yelich's tagline).
bye,Kai
-- kai@conti.nu "Just say No" to Spam Kai Schlichting Palo Alto, New York, You name it Sophisticated Technical Peon Kai's SpamShield <tm> is FREE! http://SpamShield.Conti.nu | | LeasedLines-FrameRelay-IPLs-ISDN-PPP-Cisco-Consulting-VoiceFax-Data-Muxes WorldWideWebAnything-Intranets-NetAdmin-UnixAdmin-Security-ReallyHardMath
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dean, My apologies. Your scary message will surely stop spammers dead in their tracks. Please let me know if you intend to every own a gun store. I will have to make plans to leave the country... - Dan Golding -------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Dean Anderson wrote:
No. I don't think it is ethically questionable. Each relay has started with NOQUEUE log entries. The relayer is telneting to port 25, and getting the following message:
telnet odie 25 Trying 198.3.136.141... Connected to odie.av8.com. Escape character is '^]'. 220-odie.av8.com ESMTP Sendmail; Tue, 23 Nov 1999 11:53:11 -0500 (EST) 220-Authorized Users Only 220-Notice: Unauthorized use billed at $1 per message, $10 per bounce, 220-$90/hr for cleanup. 220 Unauthorized use over $5000 defined as criminal by 18 USC 1030(6).
Around 11:38 PM 11/22/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Daniel Golding said:
Dean,
Have you considered that, while your stand may be legally correct, it is ethically questionable? By leaving your relays open, you invite abuse and facilitate the theft of other networks' resources. I can not imagine what legitimate purpose you might have for such a practice. Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this is your steady beat on the drum of law and order, combined with your strange zeal to block out IP addresses from a large block of law abiding folks.
I can only wish you luck in your endevour to have Federal law enforcement officials deliver warrant on international spammers. Clearly, those folks don't have enough to do, and need the extra work.
- Daniel Golding
On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Dean Anderson wrote:
These are coming from Mass, Cleveland, Ohio, and Virginia.
We use our relays for legitimate business purposes. They are not "accidentally left open". We are not going to close them. We are going to pursue abusers civilly and criminally. The FBI assures me that it does not matter criminally that access comes from international sources.
Much of the activity appears to be comming from alleged ANTI-SPAMMERs such as Chris Neill, and Alan Brown and Ron Guillemette who have been inciting attacks against us, posting to alt.2600 and advertising our service. Inciting criminal acts is a criminal act too, I'm pretty sure. We make sure to mention them prominently.
--Dean
Around 11:18 PM 11/21/1999 -0500, rumor has it that Kai Schlichting said:
At 09:16 PM 11/21/99 -0500, Dean Anderson wrote:
Can someone send me a list of *all* AOL netblocks? ARIN's whois only gives back a handful.
I want to block _all_ AOL netblocks, but its tough to find out what they are.
Thanks to a few malicious, radical antispammers (Chris Neill, Alan Brown, etc) we are getting hit with a large number of criminal mail relays. Mostly coming from AOL addresses. We have about a half dozen individual criminal complaints underway.
Don't kid us, Dan. Close your fucking relays (not that any of them talk to my hosts anyhow). If this has to be drummed into your bonehead again: THEY WILL FIND YOUR RELAYS ON THEIR OWN, AND THEY WILL ABUSE THEM, NO MATTER HOW LOUD YOU SCREAM. THEY SIT IN CHINA, PAKISTAN AND KOREA, AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THEM SHORT OF CALLING THE WHITEHOUSE AND GETTING THESE PLACES INVADED. Alternatively, you could come to your senses and shut the literal front door of your house now that you've finally noticed the first unsavory characters passing by. A couple years after the rest of us, no doubt.
And they won't need ORBS or any other service to locate you, either. Stop complaining. No more secrets (now that's from Scott Yelich's tagline).
bye,Kai
-- kai@conti.nu "Just say No" to Spam Kai Schlichting Palo Alto, New York, You name it Sophisticated Technical Peon Kai's SpamShield <tm> is FREE! http://SpamShield.Conti.nu | | LeasedLines-FrameRelay-IPLs-ISDN-PPP-Cisco-Consulting-VoiceFax-Data-Muxes WorldWideWebAnything-Intranets-NetAdmin-UnixAdmin-Security-ReallyHardMath
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Plain Aviation, Inc dean@av8.com LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP http://www.av8.com ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
[ On Tuesday, November 23, 1999 at 11:56:59 (-0500), Dean Anderson wrote: ]
Subject: Re: ARIN whois
No. I don't think it is ethically questionable. Each relay has started with NOQUEUE log entries. The relayer is telneting to port 25, and getting the following message:
Oh, really. Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the so-called perpetrators are indeed using any kind of application that would let them personally see the message your mailer announces itself with!?!?!? (The question is rhetorical -- the answer is "Of course not!") -- Greg A. Woods +1 416 218-0098 VE3TCP <gwoods@acm.org> <robohack!woods> Planix, Inc. <woods@planix.com>; Secrets of the Weird <woods@weird.com>
participants (3)
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Daniel Golding -
Dean Anderson -
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