Re: SPF/DKIM/DMARC et.al.: REALLY LONG [was: is it just me or...]
On 06-07-2025 17:05, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
The B2B spam I get from throwaway accounts at large mail providers is probably only 1000 or less at a time since that's all you can send that way. I do not think there is one master criminal with a million throwaway Gmail accounts.
You've moved from spam to ham, no?
It's spam, bulk mail sent to people who didn't ask for it. Some offer SEO, some offer financing for my non-existent business, it's all clearly purchased lists sending mail in bulk to strangers.
Do you have to show ID to drop a stamped envelope in a postal box?
Wait a minute. Stamps? Where did the stamps come from? Who issues them? Who decides if they're real? Perhaps you should reread my white paper more carefully. R's, John
At this point I get a whole lot of mail from Salesforce and Sendgrid. I would love to block them but unfortunately they also send a lot of mail my users want, so I have to do hacks that try to recognize the customer and let through the less bad ones. It is painfully clear that they have made business decisions not to spend enough money on abuse management to clean this up. The mail gets through, why should they?
Again this is what is generally called "ham" unless you want to apply it to anything you're not personally interested in.
No, bulk mail sent to strangers. It's the normal definition of spam. I'm not talking about companies that send you ads after you order something, this is spam sent by people I've never heard of and never contacted.
Barry has had this stamp idea for a very long time. The obvious benefit is that it makes the sender pay. That might actually fix a lot more than I had initially considered. If someone gets their bank account hit because they're not taking care of their own computer, that'd really internalize a host of externalities. There are two problems: * How to establish a federation such that the receiver can charge without violating anti-trust rules, and without harming overall access; and * The political aspects of playing into Europe's current "sender pays" model that telcos are aiming for, without having done any work. Eliot On 07.07.2025 00:02, John R. Levine via NANOG wrote:
On 06-07-2025 17:05, bzs@theworld.com wrote:
> The B2B spam I get from throwaway accounts at large mail > providers is probably only 1000 or less at a time since that's all you can > send that way. I do not think there is one master criminal with a million > throwaway Gmail accounts.
You've moved from spam to ham, no?
It's spam, bulk mail sent to people who didn't ask for it. Some offer SEO, some offer financing for my non-existent business, it's all clearly purchased lists sending mail in bulk to strangers.
Do you have to show ID to drop a stamped envelope in a postal box?
Wait a minute. Stamps? Where did the stamps come from? Who issues them? Who decides if they're real? Perhaps you should reread my white paper more carefully.
R's, John
> At this point I get a whole lot of mail from Salesforce and Sendgrid. I > would love to block them but unfortunately they also send a lot of mail my > users want, so I have to do hacks that try to recognize the customer and > let through the less bad ones. It is painfully clear that they have made > business decisions not to spend enough money on abuse management to clean > this up. The mail gets through, why should they?
Again this is what is generally called "ham" unless you want to apply it to anything you're not personally interested in.
No, bulk mail sent to strangers. It's the normal definition of spam. I'm not talking about companies that send you ads after you order something, this is spam sent by people I've never heard of and never contacted.
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On 07.07.2025 11:56, Eliot Lear via NANOG wrote:
Well. I really didn't intend for that to be sprayed all over the NANOG list. Setting Reply-to the list due to attempts to address dmarc shortcomings is what got us into this fiasco in the first place. Shame on me. Eliot
participants (2)
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Eliot Lear -
John R. Levine