Re: Observations of an Internet Middleman (Level3) (was: RIP Network Neutrality

On 5/14/2014 4:27 AM, Roland Dobbins wrote:
On May 14, 2014, at 3:11 PM, Matthew Petach <mpetach@netflight.com> wrote:
I'm constantly amazed at how access networks think they can charge 2/3 the price of full transit for just their routes when they represent less than 1/10th of the overall traffic volume.
My guess is that from the perspective of the access providers, they aren't selling traffic volume or routes, per se - their view is that they're selling privileged engagement with large numbers of potentially monetizable individual prospects.
In a world ruled by by the dreaded principles of completion, that would be described as the price where buyer and seller agreed on the value of the product.
Note that I'm neither endorsing nor disputing this perspective, just mooting it as a possible explanation.|
I do endorse a free market as providing the best value to all.
Are there any real-world models out there for revenue-sharing between app/content providers and access networks which would eliminate or reduce 'paid peering' (an alternate way to think of it is as 'delimited transit', another oxymoron like 'paid peering', but with a slightly different emphasis) monetary exchanges?
Maybe it is time to try a free market. -- Requiescas in pace o email Two identifying characteristics of System Administrators: Ex turpi causa non oritur actio Infallibility, and the ability to learn from their mistakes. (Adapted from Stephen Pinker)

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 07:01:36PM -0500, Larry Sheldon wrote:
Maybe it is time to try a free market.
Can't do that, it would be UnAmerican! - Matt -- I can only guess that the designer of the things had a major Toilet Duck habit and had managed to score a couple of industrial-sized bottles of the stuff the night before. -- Tanuki

Having an actual free market would require having competition. So long as we have monopoly layer 1 providers being allowed to use that monopoly as leverage for higher layer service monopolies, (or oligopolies), an actual free market is virtually impossible. The result of deregulating the current environment would only be more pain and cost to the consumer than we currently have with no improvement in speeds or capabilities and no additional innovation. Owen On May 14, 2014, at 6:05 PM, Matt Palmer <mpalmer@hezmatt.org> wrote:
On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 07:01:36PM -0500, Larry Sheldon wrote:
Maybe it is time to try a free market.
Can't do that, it would be UnAmerican!
- Matt
-- I can only guess that the designer of the things had a major Toilet Duck habit and had managed to score a couple of industrial-sized bottles of the stuff the night before. -- Tanuki

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 07:29:06AM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote:
The result of deregulating the current environment would only be more pain and cost to the consumer than we currently have with no improvement in speeds or capabilities and no additional innovation.
Indeed. While I certainly understand (and sympathise with) the sentiments of those who say, "we don't want the government regulating the Internet!", unfortunately in *this* particular battle I can't see a way out of the morass without a certain amount of government intervention. Of course, it would greatly help the situation if the idiotic restrictions imposed by many states making it illegal to setup muni fibre and wifi (at the behest of the monopoly carriers, of course) were repealed (or overridden), and holding companies like Verizon to account for breaking their promises to build out fibre plant, but I think the situation is *such* a mess that removing all the barriers and hoping that things naturally take care of themselves is, well, optimistic at best. - Matt -- You have a 16-bit quantity, but 5 bits of it are here and 2 bits of it are there... and 2 bits of it are back here and 3 bits of it are up there. The C code to extract useful data had so many >> and << operators in it that it looked like the C++ version of "hello world". -- Matt Roberds, ASR
participants (3)
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Larry Sheldon
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Matt Palmer
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Owen DeLong