As an example, MikroTik RouterOS has, just 2 months ago, finally added IPv6 FastTrack (a certain type of hardware offloading) in their beta software. Until now, FastTrack was IPv4 only, so for much of their routers' usage cases, the maximum IPv4 throughput would be 3-4x faster than IPv6. That massive performance difference still applies to the shipping software of units being purchased today. https://www.reddit.com/r/mikrotik/comments/1i6kwpe/ipv6_fasttrack_support_ad ded_in_v718beta_testing/ (Unfortunately that is only in RouterOS7 which has just recently become stable enough for important uses; for the last few years, providers have been staying on the old 6.x branch, and away from the latest hardware that is RouterOS7-only, for stability). -----Original Message----- From: Brandon Martin via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Sent: March 26, 2025 3:26 PM To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: Brandon Martin <lists.nanog@monmotha.net> Subject: [NANOG] Re: IPv6 Legacy IP Warning Stickers On 3/26/25 14:00, Andrew Latham via NANOG wrote:

Today yet another ISP is running Fiber in the utility easement at the street. I checked and they do not offer IPv6 or have ANY IPv6 peering.

I have offered the hard to find IPv6 Legacy Warning stickers on my Redbubble profile. About a month before any meeting or event I see a bulk order for Amish IPv6 stickers designed by Phil Benchoff and hard to find post Google+. I have the markup/profit set to the lowest setting and have made maybe $8 over 5+ years.

Linky: https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Legacy-IP-Warning-by-gringomalvado /38585698.EJUG5

Ranting a bit as I have four ISPs boxes at the street and two of them do not have IPv6 in 2025. Converting my frustration into finding Phil and sending him some coffee money.

Until consumers care, bulk-subscriber driven residential ISPs probably won't care. They have to provide IPv4 anyway, and most of the startups are stuck running CGNAT to do it already, so IPv6 is just another operational hassle for them. I don't like it, but it's the way it is. The major content providers could do a fair bit on this front. They could start by supporting IPv6 at all (sadly many don't), and for those that do support IPv6 (which is a lot of them - and thank you!), they could nudge their customers into getting it enabled on the grounds that it may improve their experience (which is true since it can and usually will bypass overloaded CGNATs). OTOH, I just had an issue where I ended up disabling IPv6 for a customer and improving their all-important speed test metrics by 50% across the board to all test providers who support IPv6. My peering is pretty symmetric, but I assume their (older but far from obsolete) router has hardware offload for IPv4 but not IPv6 since that seems to be the bottleneck in all cases. Obviously I could tell them to get a new router, but we know how that's going to end. -- Brandon Martin _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/SAKPWS7V VM7LOC54NNMNNW6PO6ZLYFDU/

On Fri, Mar 28, 2025 at 8:20 AM William Herrin via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

On Wed, Mar 26, 2025 at 1:25 PM Brandon Martin via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

...

Until consumers care, bulk-subscriber driven residential ISPs probably won't care. They have to provide IPv4 anyway, and most of the startups are stuck running CGNAT to do it already, so IPv6 is just another operational hassle for them.

I'm not sure why a modern ISP would fail to at least deploy the minimum for IPv6: 6rd is easy enough to implement and if you don't _automatically_ enable it for customers then it doesn't have to be as efficient as your IPv4 offering.

Verizon Fios customer here (Western PA). Given that Verizon's "Learn about Fios" page still says that customers who get a /56 will be able to deploy up to *56* LANs, it doesn't give me a ton of confidence that Fios will be dual-stacked network-wide any time soon. I've had Fios service in one place or another since 2012, and it's been "real soon now" since then. I continue to call their customer service line periodically and ask about v6 availability in my area and I usually get the digital equivalent of a blank stare, followed by "Ok, I'm putting a note in your account that you asked about it." I've seen reports online about customers in other areas having v6 available, but no luck here so far. Thank you jms

Eastern PA RCN/Astound customer here; I'm betting it's all service areas. We don't have it either. On Thu, Mar 27, 2025 at 1:07 PM Lucien Hoydic via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

Add RCN Chicago (Now Astound), to the list of companies that don't support IPV6.

I'm not "Astound"ed by their lack of support for modern technology

On Wednesday, March 26th, 2025 at 1:00 PM, Andrew Latham via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

...

Today yet another ISP is running Fiber in the utility easement at the street. I checked and they do not offer IPv6 or have ANY IPv6 peering.

I have offered the hard to find IPv6 Legacy Warning stickers on my Redbubble profile. About a month before any meeting or event I see a bulk order for Amish IPv6 stickers designed by Phil Benchoff and hard to find post Google+. I have the markup/profit set to the lowest setting and have made maybe $8 over 5+ years.

Linky:

https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Legacy-IP-Warning-by-gringomalvado/38585...

...

Ranting a bit as I have four ISPs boxes at the street and two of them do not have IPv6 in 2025. Converting my frustration into finding Phil and sending him some coffee money.

-- - Andrew "lathama" Latham - _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/E36ADONS... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/C2EYACUP...

Thanks to all the sticker purchases. I think I have $9 now to put toward the donations that Phil suggests of EFF/Wikimedia/ISC/Signal Foundation. Frustration in finding key cap stickers to cover the microsoft key caused me to think of a better way[1] and later to produce the Legacy IP stickers. Print on demand services are a really great way to inject some fun in your day. I am thinking about making something like a """CGNAT brought to you by Carl's Jr.""" next. 1. https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Linux-Tux-Key-Caps-Black-Use-1-2-Hole-Pu... On Fri, Mar 28, 2025 at 1:53 PM Gary Sparkes via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

Armstrong here. They've been announcing v6 forever, but for customers? Nope.

-----Original Message----- From: brent saner via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2025 3:43 AM To: North American Network Operators Group <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: brent saner <brent.saner@gmail.com> Subject: [NANOG] Re: IPv6 Legacy IP Warning Stickers

Eastern PA RCN/Astound customer here; I'm betting it's all service areas. We don't have it either.

On Thu, Mar 27, 2025 at 1:07 PM Lucien Hoydic via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

...

Add RCN Chicago (Now Astound), to the list of companies that don't support IPV6.

I'm not "Astound"ed by their lack of support for modern technology

On Wednesday, March 26th, 2025 at 1:00 PM, Andrew Latham via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

...

Today yet another ISP is running Fiber in the utility easement at the street. I checked and they do not offer IPv6 or have ANY IPv6

peering.

...

I have offered the hard to find IPv6 Legacy Warning stickers on my Redbubble profile. About a month before any meeting or event I see a bulk order for Amish IPv6 stickers designed by Phil Benchoff and hard to find post Google+. I have the markup/profit set to the lowest setting and have made maybe $8 over 5+ years.

Linky:

https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Legacy-IP-Warning-by-gringomalvado /38585698.EJUG5

...

Ranting a bit as I have four ISPs boxes at the street and two of them do not have IPv6 in 2025. Converting my frustration into finding Phil and sending him some coffee money.

-- - Andrew "lathama" Latham - _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/E3 6ADONSJ6RWNOBV5JSKGVYZTY7VCS6J/ _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/C2 EYACUPLCEXTSWS54J4DPWBGYQRB6YV/

_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/P5IW2IU6... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/NNLEOKZK...

-- - Andrew "lathama" Latham -

I'm not a grumpy old man, but I'm going to play one for a minute. The case for IPv6 was that the Internet was about to collapse, or at least stall out, unless everybody switched over from IPv4. I don't remember when I first heard that claim, but it was definitely in a year that started with a "1". It may be true eventually, too -- who knows, maybe even soon. And yes, there's been plenty of pain and trouble "behind the curtain" along the way. But zoom out to the big picture, and things are still working in IPv4 land. IPv6 will take over (perhaps quickly) once that stops. But until then, stickers and loaded language like "modern" and "legacy" are unlikely to have any effect at all. I hope it's clear that I'm not arguing against IPv6. I've just been watching the "drop dead" date when the transition would be absolutely forced get pushed back for half my professional career: 30 years of "any day now". Jim Shankland On 3/27/25 10:07 AM, Lucien Hoydic via NANOG wrote:

Add RCN Chicago (Now Astound), to the list of companies that don't support IPV6.

I'm not "Astound"ed by their lack of support for modern technology

On Wednesday, March 26th, 2025 at 1:00 PM, Andrew Latham via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

...

Today yet another ISP is running Fiber in the utility easement at the street. I checked and they do not offer IPv6 or have ANY IPv6 peering.

I have offered the hard to find IPv6 Legacy Warning stickers on my Redbubble profile. About a month before any meeting or event I see a bulk order for Amish IPv6 stickers designed by Phil Benchoff and hard to find post Google+. I have the markup/profit set to the lowest setting and have made maybe $8 over 5+ years.

Linky: https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Legacy-IP-Warning-by-gringomalvado/38585...

Ranting a bit as I have four ISPs boxes at the street and two of them do not have IPv6 in 2025. Converting my frustration into finding Phil and sending him some coffee money.

-- - Andrew "lathama" Latham - _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/E36ADONS...

_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/C2EYACUP...

I think there are some interesting conversations to be had (and John Curran is having them) around what government regulation in the Internet space looks like (RPKI is a big part of that). Tinfoil hat remarks like the below do not fall into that category. On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 5:12 PM Mel Beckman via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

One thing is certain: When IPv6 is mandatory you’ll need a U.S. RealID to route it in America. :)

-mel

...

On Apr 1, 2025, at 1:48 PM, Jim Shankland via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

I'm not a grumpy old man, but I'm going to play one for a minute.

The case for IPv6 was that the Internet was about to collapse, or at least stall out, unless everybody switched over from IPv4. I don't remember when I first heard that claim, but it was definitely in a year that started with a "1".

It may be true eventually, too -- who knows, maybe even soon. And yes, there's been plenty of pain and trouble "behind the curtain" along the way. But zoom out to the big picture, and things are still working in IPv4 land. IPv6 will take over (perhaps quickly) once that stops.

But until then, stickers and loaded language like "modern" and "legacy" are unlikely to have any effect at all.

I hope it's clear that I'm not arguing against IPv6. I've just been watching the "drop dead" date when the transition would be absolutely forced get pushed back for half my professional career: 30 years of "any day now".

Jim Shankland

...

On 3/27/25 10:07 AM, Lucien Hoydic via NANOG wrote: Add RCN Chicago (Now Astound), to the list of companies that don't support IPV6.

I'm not "Astound"ed by their lack of support for modern technology

...

On Wednesday, March 26th, 2025 at 1:00 PM, Andrew Latham via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

Today yet another ISP is running Fiber in the utility easement at the street. I checked and they do not offer IPv6 or have ANY IPv6 peering.

I have offered the hard to find IPv6 Legacy Warning stickers on my Redbubble profile. About a month before any meeting or event I see a bulk order for Amish IPv6 stickers designed by Phil Benchoff and hard to find post Google+. I have the markup/profit set to the lowest setting and have made maybe $8 over 5+ years.

Linky:

https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Legacy-IP-Warning-by-gringomalvado/38585...

...

Ranting a bit as I have four ISPs boxes at the street and two of them

do

...

not have IPv6 in 2025. Converting my frustration into finding Phil and sending him some coffee money.

-- - Andrew "lathama" Latham - _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/E36ADONS... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/C2EYACUP... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/JODZDERT...

---

NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/CZ3FZHFN...

Jim - There’s a huge difference between "IPv6 is being deployed” versus “IPv4 is going away”… IPv6 is necessary to solve a problem that most networks simply don’t have: i.e., how to handle millions of new devices connecting to your network each and every year with no end in sight. For folks making up the core of the Internet that experience such problems, IPv6 is pretty much essential – and its widespread deployment has taken an enormous burden off requirements that otherwise would have overburdened the IPv4 address space. So yes, IPv4 continues to function, but that’s not really “in spite of IPv6” as “because of IPv6”. There’s no reason that folks running IPv4 shouldn’t continue to do so unmolested – if the tool serves the purpose, then that’s perfectly fine – as long as the requirements that you face don’t change precipitously, you should be able to use IPv4 for all your needs. (This is particularly the case because the cost burden to interoperate with IPv4-only devices continues to be borne by the IPv6 deployers, and that appears to be a reasonably safe assumption for the foreseeable future.) Thanks, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers On Apr 1, 2025, at 4:47 PM, Jim Shankland via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote: I'm not a grumpy old man, but I'm going to play one for a minute. The case for IPv6 was that the Internet was about to collapse, or at least stall out, unless everybody switched over from IPv4. I don't remember when I first heard that claim, but it was definitely in a year that started with a "1". It may be true eventually, too -- who knows, maybe even soon. And yes, there's been plenty of pain and trouble "behind the curtain" along the way. But zoom out to the big picture, and things are still working in IPv4 land. IPv6 will take over (perhaps quickly) once that stops. But until then, stickers and loaded language like "modern" and "legacy" are unlikely to have any effect at all. I hope it's clear that I'm not arguing against IPv6. I've just been watching the "drop dead" date when the transition would be absolutely forced get pushed back for half my professional career: 30 years of "any day now". Jim Shankland On 3/27/25 10:07 AM, Lucien Hoydic via NANOG wrote: Add RCN Chicago (Now Astound), to the list of companies that don't support IPV6. I'm not "Astound"ed by their lack of support for modern technology On Wednesday, March 26th, 2025 at 1:00 PM, Andrew Latham via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote: Today yet another ISP is running Fiber in the utility easement at the street. I checked and they do not offer IPv6 or have ANY IPv6 peering. I have offered the hard to find IPv6 Legacy Warning stickers on my Redbubble profile. About a month before any meeting or event I see a bulk order for Amish IPv6 stickers designed by Phil Benchoff and hard to find post Google+. I have the markup/profit set to the lowest setting and have made maybe $8 over 5+ years. Linky: https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Legacy-IP-Warning-by-gringomalvado/38585... Ranting a bit as I have four ISPs boxes at the street and two of them do not have IPv6 in 2025. Converting my frustration into finding Phil and sending him some coffee money. -- - Andrew "lathama" Latham - _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/E36ADONS... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/C2EYACUP... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/JODZDERT...

Thanks, John and Alex, for the thoughtful comments. Saying that "IPv4 continues to function because of IPv6" strikes me as particularly well put. My point was not to argue against IPv6 (as I think I said), but to say that proselytizing for universal adoption with stickers and using tendentious phrases like "legacy" vs. "modern" addresses was unlikely to be effective. v6 will be deployed where it solves more problems than it creates. As John points out, that is not currently "everywhere", and likely won't be for a long time. Jim On 4/1/25 3:33 PM, Alex Buie via NANOG wrote:

Totally agree with John here - the sole reason that can has been able to kicked is *because* so many carriers and devices have IPv6 support, and netops are able to leverage them in situations where they fully control both ends of the pipe. 659 million mobile phones in india. Imagine trying to manage the RFC1918 space for that in a pure-IPV4 play. Sheesh. IPv6 also enables really innovative mesh OTT services like https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/ which allow me to build all sorts of semi-local autonomous IPv6 nets around a "human scale" large property.

At the same time, I also 100% agree with Jim that nothing sells newspapers faster than "the sky is falling", sky falling notwithstanding.

Alex

On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 6:03 PM John Curran via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

...

Jim -

There’s a huge difference between "IPv6 is being deployed” versus “IPv4 is going away”…

IPv6 is necessary to solve a problem that most networks simply don’t have: i.e., how to handle millions of new devices connecting to your network each and every year with no end in sight. For folks making up the core of the Internet that experience such problems, IPv6 is pretty much essential – and its widespread deployment has taken an enormous burden off requirements that otherwise would have overburdened the IPv4 address space.

So yes, IPv4 continues to function, but that’s not really “in spite of IPv6” as “because of IPv6”. There’s no reason that folks running IPv4 shouldn’t continue to do so unmolested – if the tool serves the purpose, then that’s perfectly fine – as long as the requirements that you face don’t change precipitously, you should be able to use IPv4 for all your needs. (This is particularly the case because the cost burden to interoperate with IPv4-only devices continues to be borne by the IPv6 deployers, and that appears to be a reasonably safe assumption for the foreseeable future.)

Thanks, /John

John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers

On Apr 1, 2025, at 4:47 PM, Jim Shankland via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

I'm not a grumpy old man, but I'm going to play one for a minute.

The case for IPv6 was that the Internet was about to collapse, or at least stall out, unless everybody switched over from IPv4. I don't remember when I first heard that claim, but it was definitely in a year that started with a "1".

It may be true eventually, too -- who knows, maybe even soon. And yes, there's been plenty of pain and trouble "behind the curtain" along the way. But zoom out to the big picture, and things are still working in IPv4 land. IPv6 will take over (perhaps quickly) once that stops.

But until then, stickers and loaded language like "modern" and "legacy" are unlikely to have any effect at all.

I hope it's clear that I'm not arguing against IPv6. I've just been watching the "drop dead" date when the transition would be absolutely forced get pushed back for half my professional career: 30 years of "any day now".

Jim Shankland

On 3/27/25 10:07 AM, Lucien Hoydic via NANOG wrote: Add RCN Chicago (Now Astound), to the list of companies that don't support IPV6.

I'm not "Astound"ed by their lack of support for modern technology

On Wednesday, March 26th, 2025 at 1:00 PM, Andrew Latham via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

Today yet another ISP is running Fiber in the utility easement at the street. I checked and they do not offer IPv6 or have ANY IPv6 peering.

I have offered the hard to find IPv6 Legacy Warning stickers on my Redbubble profile. About a month before any meeting or event I see a bulk order for Amish IPv6 stickers designed by Phil Benchoff and hard to find post Google+. I have the markup/profit set to the lowest setting and have made maybe $8 over 5+ years.

Linky:

https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Legacy-IP-Warning-by-gringomalvado/38585...

Ranting a bit as I have four ISPs boxes at the street and two of them do not have IPv6 in 2025. Converting my frustration into finding Phil and sending him some coffee money.

-- - Andrew "lathama" Latham - _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/E36ADONS... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list

https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/C2EYACUP... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/JODZDERT...

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---

NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/NS5YZGSN...

Single IPv6 stack in the home is achievable today. Single IPv6 stack in the enterprise is achievable today. Single IPv6 stack in the access network is achievable today. This is how most phones work today. The node if it needs to talk to an IPv4 server uses one of the forms of IPv4AAS. Most probably 464XLAT. There are billions of devices that do that today. Today if you attend conferences your IPv4 address is most probably 192.0.0.1 if they support IPv6-mostly (IPv4 option 108) and you have an up to date OS. Enabling IPv6-mostly on the access network will allow your IPv4 lease load to drop as CPE start to support it. The hard part will be turning down the IPv4 connections to your peers when the rest of the world has switched to IPv6. Mark

On 2 Apr 2025, at 10:05, Alex Buie via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

At the risk of oversimplifying:

“just because you can divide 8 apples between 2 people with long division on paper, it’s a heck of a lot easier just to count off if you can get away with it”

But this raises an interesting question; is there ever an actual end? What does IPv6 adoption completion look like? Is there a definition of success? You can almost certainly not buy a physical GP computer today at least that does not support static IPv6 addressing in some manner, at least in terms of network elements. And I could get IPv6 connectivity at nearly any address in the US, (where I have experience) if I’m willing to pay enough money for it. what else is there? Is IPv6 only considered successful with IPv4 is truly turned off? There’s always gonna be people who want 32 bits instead of 128 because it’s easier to carry around in your brain and doubly so if you don’t even need the rest of those bits for what you’re trying to do.

The allure of only having to set up a single protocol stack is very strong, but I just don’t see it happening in my lifetime in a “production” capacity.

You’re always gonna at least need some broker box somewhere with your last /29 talking to the vestiges of the companies still running exchange 2003. _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/MDVNX6WM...

-- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org

Mel - If you do so, you can include one slide near the front that includes – “What didn’t Happen - RFC 5211” <chuckle> :-) /John

On Apr 1, 2025, at 8:34 PM, Mel Beckman via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

I can see it’s time to present a NANOG talk “How IPv6 saved the Internet”

I’m just going to turn this thread into slides. The talk writes itself!

-mel via cell

...

On Apr 1, 2025, at 5:03 PM, Mark Andrews via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

Single IPv6 stack in the home is achievable today. Single IPv6 stack in the enterprise is achievable today. Single IPv6 stack in the access network is achievable today. This is how most phones work today. The node if it needs to talk to an IPv4 server uses one of the forms of IPv4AAS. Most probably 464XLAT. There are billions of devices that do that today.

Today if you attend conferences your IPv4 address is most probably 192.0.0.1 if they support IPv6-mostly (IPv4 option 108) and you have an up to date OS.

Enabling IPv6-mostly on the access network will allow your IPv4 lease load to drop as CPE start to support it.

The hard part will be turning down the IPv4 connections to your peers when the rest of the world has switched to IPv6.

Mark

...

On 2 Apr 2025, at 10:05, Alex Buie via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:

At the risk of oversimplifying:

“just because you can divide 8 apples between 2 people with long division on paper, it’s a heck of a lot easier just to count off if you can get away with it”

But this raises an interesting question; is there ever an actual end? What does IPv6 adoption completion look like? Is there a definition of success? You can almost certainly not buy a physical GP computer today at least that does not support static IPv6 addressing in some manner, at least in terms of network elements. And I could get IPv6 connectivity at nearly any address in the US, (where I have experience) if I’m willing to pay enough money for it. what else is there? Is IPv6 only considered successful with IPv4 is truly turned off? There’s always gonna be people who want 32 bits instead of 128 because it’s easier to carry around in your brain and doubly so if you don’t even need the rest of those bits for what you’re trying to do.

The allure of only having to set up a single protocol stack is very strong, but I just don’t see it happening in my lifetime in a “production” capacity.

You’re always gonna at least need some broker box somewhere with your last /29 talking to the vestiges of the companies still running exchange 2003. _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/MDVNX6WM...

-- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org

_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/7BQSH35W...

---

NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/DZS2DESH...

Jim, But IPv4 is “legacy“, and IPv6 is “modern”, under the very definitions of these words. In fact, “legacy” is just a euphemism for “old-fashioned“, so people are already being kind to IPv4 in it’s dotage. (see what I did there? :) -mel On Apr 1, 2025, at 3:56 PM, Jim Shankland via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote: Thanks, John and Alex, for the thoughtful comments. Saying that "IPv4 continues to function because of IPv6" strikes me as particularly well put. My point was not to argue against IPv6 (as I think I said), but to say that proselytizing for universal adoption with stickers and using tendentious phrases like "legacy" vs. "modern" addresses was unlikely to be effective. v6 will be deployed where it solves more problems than it creates. As John points out, that is not currently "everywhere", and likely won't be for a long time. Jim On 4/1/25 3:33 PM, Alex Buie via NANOG wrote: Totally agree with John here - the sole reason that can has been able to kicked is *because* so many carriers and devices have IPv6 support, and netops are able to leverage them in situations where they fully control both ends of the pipe. 659 million mobile phones in india. Imagine trying to manage the RFC1918 space for that in a pure-IPV4 play. Sheesh. IPv6 also enables really innovative mesh OTT services like https://yggdrasil-network.github.io/ which allow me to build all sorts of semi-local autonomous IPv6 nets around a "human scale" large property. At the same time, I also 100% agree with Jim that nothing sells newspapers faster than "the sky is falling", sky falling notwithstanding. Alex On Tue, Apr 1, 2025 at 6:03 PM John Curran via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote: Jim - There’s a huge difference between "IPv6 is being deployed” versus “IPv4 is going away”… IPv6 is necessary to solve a problem that most networks simply don’t have: i.e., how to handle millions of new devices connecting to your network each and every year with no end in sight. For folks making up the core of the Internet that experience such problems, IPv6 is pretty much essential – and its widespread deployment has taken an enormous burden off requirements that otherwise would have overburdened the IPv4 address space. So yes, IPv4 continues to function, but that’s not really “in spite of IPv6” as “because of IPv6”. There’s no reason that folks running IPv4 shouldn’t continue to do so unmolested – if the tool serves the purpose, then that’s perfectly fine – as long as the requirements that you face don’t change precipitously, you should be able to use IPv4 for all your needs. (This is particularly the case because the cost burden to interoperate with IPv4-only devices continues to be borne by the IPv6 deployers, and that appears to be a reasonably safe assumption for the foreseeable future.) Thanks, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers On Apr 1, 2025, at 4:47 PM, Jim Shankland via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote: I'm not a grumpy old man, but I'm going to play one for a minute. The case for IPv6 was that the Internet was about to collapse, or at least stall out, unless everybody switched over from IPv4. I don't remember when I first heard that claim, but it was definitely in a year that started with a "1". It may be true eventually, too -- who knows, maybe even soon. And yes, there's been plenty of pain and trouble "behind the curtain" along the way. But zoom out to the big picture, and things are still working in IPv4 land. IPv6 will take over (perhaps quickly) once that stops. But until then, stickers and loaded language like "modern" and "legacy" are unlikely to have any effect at all. I hope it's clear that I'm not arguing against IPv6. I've just been watching the "drop dead" date when the transition would be absolutely forced get pushed back for half my professional career: 30 years of "any day now". Jim Shankland On 3/27/25 10:07 AM, Lucien Hoydic via NANOG wrote: Add RCN Chicago (Now Astound), to the list of companies that don't support IPV6. I'm not "Astound"ed by their lack of support for modern technology On Wednesday, March 26th, 2025 at 1:00 PM, Andrew Latham via NANOG < nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote: Today yet another ISP is running Fiber in the utility easement at the street. I checked and they do not offer IPv6 or have ANY IPv6 peering. I have offered the hard to find IPv6 Legacy Warning stickers on my Redbubble profile. About a month before any meeting or event I see a bulk order for Amish IPv6 stickers designed by Phil Benchoff and hard to find post Google+. I have the markup/profit set to the lowest setting and have made maybe $8 over 5+ years. Linky: https://www.redbubble.com/i/sticker/Legacy-IP-Warning-by-gringomalvado/38585... Ranting a bit as I have four ISPs boxes at the street and two of them do not have IPv6 in 2025. Converting my frustration into finding Phil and sending him some coffee money. -- - Andrew "lathama" Latham - _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/E36ADONS... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/C2EYACUP... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/JODZDERT... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/M3UUZLVL... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/NS5YZGSN... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/XD766DTG...