Need Centurylink contact for serious ongoing issue
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already. If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list. Many thanks! John Neiberger
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them. Just a thought On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out. John On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
I've run into the same thing with Lumen DIA's before. Multiple muni's out, port ops and everyone just assumed everyone else called. Sometimes all it takes a bit of coordinating. Glad you got someone to check it out. On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 8:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out.
John
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility
commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com>
wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone. On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out.
John
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility
commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com>
wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
+1 to contacting your local public service commission. _No_ provider wants them to pass along a complaint. When that happens, things get fixed quickly. -----Original Message----- From: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2024 10:36am To: "John Neiberger" <jneiberger@gmail.com> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Need Centurylink contact for serious ongoing issue If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone. On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <[ jneiberger@gmail.com ]( mailto:jneiberger@gmail.com )> wrote:Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out. John On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <[ evmoy15@gmail.com ]( mailto:evmoy15@gmail.com )> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <[ jneiberger@gmail.com ]( mailto:jneiberger@gmail.com )> wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
Understandable for a single customer. It sounds like this a huge part of the town that has no phones, including the rural folks who live outside of cell coverage, many of whom are elderly. I just found out that they had indeed called CL to complain days ago and CL told them they couldn't get out there to look at it until the 20th. These are rural people with no backup to their landline who have been without phone for days already and CL expects them to go another week or two? Unbelievable. Also, when I called CL on their behalf, I was told they had no record of an outage in the area. Thankfully, I was able to reach someone at Lumen who was able to get someone involved. There is supposed to be a tech there right now, but he no-showed. I think an FCC complaint is in order. On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 8:36 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out.
John
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
I'm not sure which is more impactful, an FCC complaint or a state PUC complaint. Might not hurt to do both. :-) ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Neiberger" <jneiberger@gmail.com> To: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2024 9:52:57 AM Subject: Re: Need Centurylink contact for serious ongoing issue Understandable for a single customer. It sounds like this a huge part of the town that has no phones, including the rural folks who live outside of cell coverage, many of whom are elderly. I just found out that they had indeed called CL to complain days ago and CL told them they couldn't get out there to look at it until the 20th. These are rural people with no backup to their landline who have been without phone for days already and CL expects them to go another week or two? Unbelievable. Also, when I called CL on their behalf, I was told they had no record of an outage in the area. Thankfully, I was able to reach someone at Lumen who was able to get someone involved. There is supposed to be a tech there right now, but he no-showed. I think an FCC complaint is in order. On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 8:36 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out.
John
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
The state PSC would be my vote, they reach out asap on complaints from what I’ve seen locally here in LA. From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+luke.guillory=letsrev.com@nanog.org> on behalf of Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> Date: Thursday, December 12, 2024 at 9:58 AM To: John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org> Subject: Re: Need Centurylink contact for serious ongoing issue *External Email: Use Caution* I'm not sure which is more impactful, an FCC complaint or a state PUC complaint. Might not hurt to do both. :-) ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions<http://www.ics-il.com/> [Image removed by sender.]<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>[Image removed by sender.]<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>[Image removed by sender.]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>[Image removed by sender.]<https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange<http://www.midwest-ix.com/> [Image removed by sender.]<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>[Image removed by sender.]<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>[Image removed by sender.]<https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> [Image removed by sender.]<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>[Image removed by sender.]<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> ________________________________ From: "John Neiberger" <jneiberger@gmail.com> To: "Josh Luthman" <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2024 9:52:57 AM Subject: Re: Need Centurylink contact for serious ongoing issue Understandable for a single customer. It sounds like this a huge part of the town that has no phones, including the rural folks who live outside of cell coverage, many of whom are elderly. I just found out that they had indeed called CL to complain days ago and CL told them they couldn't get out there to look at it until the 20th. These are rural people with no backup to their landline who have been without phone for days already and CL expects them to go another week or two? Unbelievable. Also, when I called CL on their behalf, I was told they had no record of an outage in the area. Thankfully, I was able to reach someone at Lumen who was able to get someone involved. There is supposed to be a tech there right now, but he no-showed. I think an FCC complaint is in order. On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 8:36 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out.
John
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
I understand it is frustrating. Analog phones can not be detected unless they're off hook so I don't see how a provider can detect between sitting idle or the cables cut. How do you know for certain it is an outage in the area and not just the customer(s) you've talked to? There is a requirement for outages required by the FCC. On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 10:53 AM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Understandable for a single customer. It sounds like this a huge part of the town that has no phones, including the rural folks who live outside of cell coverage, many of whom are elderly. I just found out that they had indeed called CL to complain days ago and CL told them they couldn't get out there to look at it until the 20th. These are rural people with no backup to their landline who have been without phone for days already and CL expects them to go another week or two? Unbelievable. Also, when I called CL on their behalf, I was told they had no record of an outage in the area.
Thankfully, I was able to reach someone at Lumen who was able to get someone involved. There is supposed to be a tech there right now, but he no-showed. I think an FCC complaint is in order.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 8:36 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see
the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com>
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out.
John
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility
commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com>
wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the
area
and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this,
wrote: please
contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
I've been gathering reports from people there. Two of the homes are family members and they know of other homes and businesses in the area who have been down for days, as well. I'm trying to gather more information. I want to compile a list of names and phone numbers so that I can include that in an FCC complaint. I've already reported this to the Colorado PUC, but they said that landlines were deregulated in 2014 so they have no authority in the situation like they used to. They are able to contact Lumen, though, so that should help prioritize the repair. On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 9:08 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
I understand it is frustrating. Analog phones can not be detected unless they're off hook so I don't see how a provider can detect between sitting idle or the cables cut.
How do you know for certain it is an outage in the area and not just the customer(s) you've talked to?
There is a requirement for outages required by the FCC.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 10:53 AM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Understandable for a single customer. It sounds like this a huge part of the town that has no phones, including the rural folks who live outside of cell coverage, many of whom are elderly. I just found out that they had indeed called CL to complain days ago and CL told them they couldn't get out there to look at it until the 20th. These are rural people with no backup to their landline who have been without phone for days already and CL expects them to go another week or two? Unbelievable. Also, when I called CL on their behalf, I was told they had no record of an outage in the area.
Thankfully, I was able to reach someone at Lumen who was able to get someone involved. There is supposed to be a tech there right now, but he no-showed. I think an FCC complaint is in order.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 8:36 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out.
John
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 days already.
If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please contact me off-list.
Many thanks! John Neiberger
Wouldn't there have to be an ILEC responsible for lifeline? I'm in Ohio, not Colorado, so that may be different entirely. On Thu, Dec 12, 2024, 11:28 AM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
I've been gathering reports from people there. Two of the homes are family members and they know of other homes and businesses in the area who have been down for days, as well. I'm trying to gather more information. I want to compile a list of names and phone numbers so that I can include that in an FCC complaint. I've already reported this to the Colorado PUC, but they said that landlines were deregulated in 2014 so they have no authority in the situation like they used to. They are able to contact Lumen, though, so that should help prioritize the repair.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 9:08 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
I understand it is frustrating. Analog phones can not be detected
unless they're off hook so I don't see how a provider can detect between sitting idle or the cables cut.
How do you know for certain it is an outage in the area and not just the
customer(s) you've talked to?
There is a requirement for outages required by the FCC.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 10:53 AM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com>
Understandable for a single customer. It sounds like this a huge part of the town that has no phones, including the rural folks who live outside of cell coverage, many of whom are elderly. I just found out that they had indeed called CL to complain days ago and CL told them they couldn't get out there to look at it until the 20th. These are rural people with no backup to their landline who have been without phone for days already and CL expects them to go another week or two? Unbelievable. Also, when I called CL on their behalf, I was told they had no record of an outage in the area.
Thankfully, I was able to reach someone at Lumen who was able to get someone involved. There is supposed to be a tech there right now, but he no-showed. I think an FCC complaint is in order.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 8:36 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to
see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com>
wrote:
Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain.
I
also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to drive over there tomorrow and check it out.
John
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote:
Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility
commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them.
Just a thought
On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some
> on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small > town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers > have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going > on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area > and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than > escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with > poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm > particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be > unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 > days already. > > If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this,
wrote: traction please
> contact me off-list. > > Many thanks! > John Neiberger
Hi, John: 0) Allow me to share some old-fashioned telephony line-man tricks, kind of trade-secretes. 😉 1) "Analog phones can not be detected unless they're off hook ... ": This is true only if your measurement capability is limited within the pure DC (Direct Current) domain. A tiny step outside of it will open up some possibilities. As we all know, a POTS (Plain Old Telephone Set) in OnHook state will ring when Ringing Signals are applied from the serving telephone switch. This is because there is a Ringer Circuit always connected across the Tip-Ring pair of the subscriber loop wire pair. The basic component of a Ringer is an electro-mechanical device that appears as an inductor (L) on the electrical side and functions as a hammer on the mechanical side. To prevent the L from constantly drawing 48VDC battery current, a series capacitor (C) has to be included. Consequently, AC (Alternate Current) signals are used to activate the Ringer. Depending on the country, this AC frequency is around 16 - 20 Hz. So, the Ringer Circuit is designed as a series L-C resonator that appears as a resistive load at that chosen frequency. There is a range of L & C combination values that can be used for this purpose. Practically, C comes out to be around 1uF (One Micro-Farad) and rated at least 250VAC to survive the voltage swing of the Ringing Signal. Accordingly, there are ways to detect a POTS by measuring its L or C, but not by a pure DC approach. 2) " ... between sitting idle or the cables cut. ": Inductance measurements are generally more involved. So, treating an OnHook POTS as a capacitor is a simpler way for the current purpose. There are a couple possible techniques. For example: A. A line-man can put a voltmeter across a subscriber loop wire pair to verify that it is being energized by the 48VDC battery from the CO (Central Office), and is not shorted or leaking. Upon disconnecting one wire of the pair from the CO side, if the voltmeter reading drops to zero right away, the loop is an open loop (without a POTS). If its reading maintains for awhile (actually, a fairly long time), there is at least one POTS (1uF or equivalent) on the line. B. A "Battery Reversal Tester" can be used in the CO to actually measure how much charge is stored at the end of a subscriber loop, by observing the length of time that a subscriber line voltage takes to reverse upon flipping the polarity of the 48VDC battery voltage applied to it. This is done through controlled known discharge circuit, based on RC time-constant. C. With a "calibrated" Battery Reversal Tester, the CO craftsman can tell how many POTS are plugged into the jacks along a subscriber loop. That is, the more POTS are plugged in, the longer it takes to reverse the voltage on the subscriber side. This is where the REN (Ringer Equivalent Number) on the POST label comes from. For example, when a subscriber complains that ringing is too weak, the CO can tell whether that subscriber has too many phones plugged in, even without a physical visit. The convention established by FCC is 5 REN (or about 5uF) - Maximum number of ringers (POTS) for the subscriber and minimum Ringing Signal capability for the CO. D. A seasoned line-man can do Step C. on the pole by himself, even without the support of the CO instrumentation, using everyday VOM (Volt-Ohm-MiliAmper) meter which is in his basic tool kit. Hope this helps. Happy Holidays! Abe (2024-12-15 23:55 EST) On 2024-12-12 11:08, Josh Luthman wrote:
I understand it is frustrating. Analog phones can not be detected unless they're off hook so I don't see how a provider can detect between sitting idle or the cables cut.
How do you know for certain it is an outage in the area and not just the customer(s) you've talked to?
There is a requirement for outages required by the FCC.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 10:53 AM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote:
Understandable for a single customer. It sounds like this a huge part of the town that has no phones, including the rural folks who live outside of cell coverage, many of whom are elderly. I just found out that they had indeed called CL to complain days ago and CL told them they couldn't get out there to look at it until the 20th. These are rural people with no backup to their landline who have been without phone for days already and CL expects them to go another week or two? Unbelievable. Also, when I called CL on their behalf, I was told they had no record of an outage in the area.
Thankfully, I was able to reach someone at Lumen who was able to get someone involved. There is supposed to be a tech there right now, but he no-showed. I think an FCC complaint is in order.
On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 8:36 AM Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: > > If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone. > > On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:54 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Yep. I finally found some contacts at Lumen who ran it up the chain. I >> also did report it to the Colorado PUC. I'm still confused about how >> so many homes and businesses could be without service and Centurylink >> wouldn't know about it. It's a small town, and I'm starting to think >> everyone thought that the phone company must know about it because >> there so many affected, so no one bothered to call them. I don't know. >> None of it makes any sense. But at least we have someone scheduled to >> drive over there tomorrow and check it out. >> >> John >> >> On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 9:08 PM Evan Moyer <evmoy15@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Have you tried filing a complaint with your state's public utility commission? POTS service is usually regulated by them. >> > >> > Just a thought >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 7:52 PM John Neiberger <jneiberger@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> I apologize for using NANOG for this, but I need to get some traction >> >> on a telephone outage affecting a large number of homes in a small >> >> town that Centurylink seems to be unaware of. The affected customers >> >> have had no phone service for days and none of them know what's going >> >> on. Centurylink customer service says there are no outages in the area >> >> and just want to dispatch a tech to an individual home rather than >> >> escalate this as the emergency that it is. This is a rural area with >> >> poor cell service, so many of these customers have no alternative. I'm >> >> particularly concerned that many of the affected customers would be >> >> unable to reach emergency services, and haven't been able to for 3-4 >> >> days already. >> >> >> >> If someone has a contact at Centurylink that can escalate this, please >> >> contact me off-list. >> >> >> >> Many thanks! >> >> John Neiberger
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It appears that Josh Luthman <josh@imaginenetworksllc.com> said:
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If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
You might think that if nobody at all makes any calls for an hour or two, that might seem unusual. Or if no incoming calls complete. R's, John
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is > expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
You might think that if nobody at all makes any calls for an hour or two, that might seem unusual. Or if no incoming calls complete.
R's, John
It might seem unusual, it might not. It depends on the eyes and it depends on the context. Maybe little rural towns don't actually get a lot of phone calls. maybe little rural towns get tons of line cuts/damage and so it's just a drop in the bucket. maybe little rural towns don't rate for much attention by ILECs due to their minimal revenue. Maybe ILEC monitoring is not robust enough to make these kinds of observations in the first place. ILEC might not care, even if they fall into the "yes, that looks unusual" category. They may not be overly concerned with unusual, just confirmed/reported outages (which sounds like OP is struggling with even that much) I wonder if sat services like Starlink or Hughsnet are an option for remote/rural towns in this kind of scenario. Perhaps the phones are down but they could send IM/chat messages or emails or what have you. Maybe time to unroll a spool of string and get some tin cans hooked up. Either way, it sounds like a pretty unfortunate situation for the people in the town and likely the friends and family of said people. Hopefully there soon is a resolution and maybe OP can send a follow-up with the outcome of this saga.
I wonder if sat services like Starlink or Hughsnet are an option for remote/rural towns in this kind of scenario. Perhaps the phones are down but they could send IM/chat messages or emails or what have you. Maybe time to unroll a spool of string and get some tin cans hooked up.
FWIW, I've used Starlink in remote areas while overlanding with zero cellular and was able to make/recieve calls and even standard SMS. VZW by the way. --- ~Randy (K6RP)
I wonder if sat services like Starlink or Hughsnet are an option for remote/rural towns in this kind of scenario.
There's usually a few options for people with money or some technical knowledge - in addition to those, local WISPs or other ISPs are usually a better option, and sometimes cell coverage. This is one of those problems for the people who "fall through the cracks" - low income or older people. If a person with a usable cell phone and a separate ISP has issues with their landline, it won't affect their life notably. But for older people with limited technology who base their safety somewhat on "the phones will always work", if they fall or have a major health issue and there is no dial tone on the line, people will probably die. -----Original Message----- From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+colin-lists=highspeedcrow.ca@nanog.org> On Behalf Of Justin Krejci Sent: December 12, 2024 3:06 PM To: johnl@iecc.com; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Need Centurylink contact for serious ongoing issue
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is > expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
You might think that if nobody at all makes any calls for an hour or two, that might seem unusual. Or if no incoming calls complete.
R's, John
It might seem unusual, it might not. It depends on the eyes and it depends on the context. Maybe little rural towns don't actually get a lot of phone calls. maybe little rural towns get tons of line cuts/damage and so it's just a drop in the bucket. maybe little rural towns don't rate for much attention by ILECs due to their minimal revenue. Maybe ILEC monitoring is not robust enough to make these kinds of observations in the first place. ILEC might not care, even if they fall into the "yes, that looks unusual" category. They may not be overly concerned with unusual, just confirmed/reported outages (which sounds like OP is struggling with even that much) I wonder if sat services like Starlink or Hughsnet are an option for remote/rural towns in this kind of scenario. Perhaps the phones are down but they could send IM/chat messages or emails or what have you. Maybe time to unroll a spool of string and get some tin cans hooked up. Either way, it sounds like a pretty unfortunate situation for the people in the town and likely the friends and family of said people. Hopefully there soon is a resolution and maybe OP can send a follow-up with the outcome of this saga.
I wonder if sat services like Starlink or Hughsnet are an option for remote/rural towns in this kind of scenario. Perhaps the phones are down but they could send IM/chat messages or emails or what have you. Maybe time to unroll a spool of string and get some tin cans hooked up.
Satellite internet has been an option for 28 years. Of course it's an option. ILEC might not care, even if they fall into the "yes, that looks
unusual" category. They may not be overly concerned with unusual, just confirmed/reported outages (which sounds like OP is struggling with even that much)
It boggles my mind that anyone would consider a known outage to just be 'oh well'. LECs still have statutory and legal obligations for wireline services, even if they 'don't care'. ( While still acknowledging the unfortunate reality that 40+ years of the 'regulation is bad, mmkay' crowd has made enforcement of those obligations toothless, so the LECs have been empowered to ignore them as much as they can get away with. ) On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 4:08 PM Justin Krejci <JKrejci@usinternet.com> wrote:
If it's landline copper phone, it's kind of hard for a provider to see the lack of customers off hook. The electrical circuit being open is > expected until the customer picks up the load/off hooks the phone.
You might think that if nobody at all makes any calls for an hour or two, that might seem unusual. Or if no incoming calls complete.
R's, John
It might seem unusual, it might not. It depends on the eyes and it depends on the context. Maybe little rural towns don't actually get a lot of phone calls. maybe little rural towns get tons of line cuts/damage and so it's just a drop in the bucket. maybe little rural towns don't rate for much attention by ILECs due to their minimal revenue. Maybe ILEC monitoring is not robust enough to make these kinds of observations in the first place.
ILEC might not care, even if they fall into the "yes, that looks unusual" category. They may not be overly concerned with unusual, just confirmed/reported outages (which sounds like OP is struggling with even that much)
I wonder if sat services like Starlink or Hughsnet are an option for remote/rural towns in this kind of scenario. Perhaps the phones are down but they could send IM/chat messages or emails or what have you. Maybe time to unroll a spool of string and get some tin cans hooked up.
Either way, it sounds like a pretty unfortunate situation for the people in the town and likely the friends and family of said people. Hopefully there soon is a resolution and maybe OP can send a follow-up with the outcome of this saga.
participants (12)
-
Abraham Y. Chen -
Colin Stanners (lists) -
Evan Moyer -
John Levine -
John Neiberger -
Josh Luthman -
Justin Krejci -
Luke Guillory -
Mike Hammett -
Randy (K6RP) -
Shawn L -
Tom Beecher