https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet... Some may find this of interest. Regards, Hank
Well, dont get me wrong, but this article is a bit wrong. Internet != CDNs. While this is true that CDNs host a lot of content these days and outage bring down a lot of sites down, this doesnt mean the whole Internet is like that. I, for example didnt notice a thing when CloudFlare went down. If not sitting on some IRC channels where I heard moaning about it I would NOT know a thing that there is outage in progress ;) My stuff was working, stuff I cared was working.. Regards, Borg ---------- Original message ---------- From: Hank Nussbacher via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> Subject: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:28:35 +0200 https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet... Some may find this of interest. Regards, Hank _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/5BZSAH5Y...
Sadly your view of the "internet" is as small as a pea. IRC doesn't get people paid and things like salesforce being down produce logistical problems causing trucks not to move, delivering your goods to stores leaving you sitting there on IRC spreading peanut butter on whatever bread you have left with a plastic knife until it all clears up. -- J. Hellenthal The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 06:53, borg--- via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
Well, dont get me wrong, but this article is a bit wrong. Internet != CDNs. While this is true that CDNs host a lot of content these days and outage bring down a lot of sites down, this doesnt mean the whole Internet is like that.
I, for example didnt notice a thing when CloudFlare went down. If not sitting on some IRC channels where I heard moaning about it I would NOT know a thing that there is outage in progress ;) My stuff was working, stuff I cared was working..
Regards, Borg
---------- Original message ----------
From: Hank Nussbacher via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> Subject: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:28:35 +0200
https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet...
Some may find this of interest.
Regards, Hank
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/5BZSAH5Y... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/DM232TJG...
Indeed, spoken like a true bigboy... Small orgs should keep quiet.. I didnt noticed any problems w/ supplies here.. Anyway.. Keep centralizing boys... It will be good.. For your landlords.. EOF from my side.. ---------- Original message ---------- From: J. Hellenthal <jhellenthal@dataix.net> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: borg@uu3.net, nanog@lists.nanog.org Subject: Re: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 08:50:27 -0600 Sadly your view of the "internet" is as small as a pea. IRC doesn't get people paid and things like salesforce being down produce logistical problems causing trucks not to move, delivering your goods to stores leaving you sitting there on IRC spreading peanut butter on whatever bread you have left with a plastic knife until it all clears up. -- J. Hellenthal The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 06:53, borg--- via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
˙˙Well, dont get me wrong, but this article is a bit wrong. Internet != CDNs. While this is true that CDNs host a lot of content these days and outage bring down a lot of sites down, this doesnt mean the whole Internet is like that.
I, for example didnt notice a thing when CloudFlare went down. If not sitting on some IRC channels where I heard moaning about it I would NOT know a thing that there is outage in progress ;) My stuff was working, stuff I cared was working..
Regards, Borg
---------- Original message ----------
From: Hank Nussbacher via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> Subject: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:28:35 +0200
https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet...
Some may find this of interest.
Regards, Hank
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/5BZSAH5Y... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/DM232TJG...
I mean, for the most part, only what, 50 ASNs make up the vast majority of Internet traffic? 5 - 10 on the content side and the balance as eyeballs? For sure what's outside of that is meaningful, but it falls off quickly. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com Midwest-IX http://www.midwest-ix.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "borg--- via NANOG" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> To: "Hank Nussbacher via NANOG" <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: borg@uu3.net Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2025 6:52:36 AM Subject: Re: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Well, dont get me wrong, but this article is a bit wrong. Internet != CDNs. While this is true that CDNs host a lot of content these days and outage bring down a lot of sites down, this doesnt mean the whole Internet is like that. I, for example didnt notice a thing when CloudFlare went down. If not sitting on some IRC channels where I heard moaning about it I would NOT know a thing that there is outage in progress ;) My stuff was working, stuff I cared was working.. Regards, Borg ---------- Original message ---------- From: Hank Nussbacher via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> Subject: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:28:35 +0200 https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet... Some may find this of interest. Regards, Hank _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/5BZSAH5Y... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/DM232TJG...
Doesn't have anything to do with big/small org size. Two+ decades of "why run this myself, I'll just use theirs" , combined with people assuming that the big dogs 'never go down' has gotten us here. Maybe this CF outage didn't touch anything you care about, but I bet the more recent AWS one did. On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 11:56 AM borg--- via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
Indeed, spoken like a true bigboy... Small orgs should keep quiet.. I didnt noticed any problems w/ supplies here.. Anyway.. Keep centralizing boys... It will be good.. For your landlords..
EOF from my side..
---------- Original message ----------
From: J. Hellenthal <jhellenthal@dataix.net> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: borg@uu3.net, nanog@lists.nanog.org Subject: Re: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 08:50:27 -0600
Sadly your view of the "internet" is as small as a pea. IRC doesn't get people paid and things like salesforce being down produce logistical problems causing trucks not to move, delivering your goods to stores leaving you sitting there on IRC spreading peanut butter on whatever bread you have left with a plastic knife until it all clears up.
-- J. Hellenthal
The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 06:53, borg--- via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
˙˙Well, dont get me wrong, but this article is a bit wrong. Internet != CDNs. While this is true that CDNs host a lot of content these days and outage bring down a lot of sites down, this doesnt mean the whole Internet is like that.
I, for example didnt notice a thing when CloudFlare went down. If not sitting on some IRC channels where I heard moaning about it I would NOT know a thing that there is outage in progress ;) My stuff was working, stuff I cared was working..
Regards, Borg
---------- Original message ----------
From: Hank Nussbacher via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> Subject: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:28:35 +0200
https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet...
Some may find this of interest.
Regards, Hank
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/5BZSAH5Y...
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/DM232TJG... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
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Nice blog. See also RFC 9518 <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9518.html>. On 23.11.2025 03:28, Hank Nussbacher via NANOG wrote:
https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet...
Some may find this of interest.
Regards, Hank
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/5BZSAH5Y...
shocking new problem discovered by isoc! news at eleven. </snark> the question is what can ops, society, ... actually *do* about the problem randy
The whole ARPAnet experiment was based on the idea of a network of geographically distributed nodes, heavily interconnected. What the thing we call the Internet today condenses those nodes, so the node count falls to the point that failures are more catastrophic. Further, the administration of the nodes is starting to coalesce, so a single mistake takes out multiple nodes. MBAs are killing the Internet that we used to know. We are going backwards in time, when networks were star networks with a common hub, instead of autonomous network of networks. Another allied issue is the A&R of network equipment suppliers. Fewer suppliers, plus more chance of cross-contamination by bad code, bad documentation, and bad training.
On 23/11/2025 14:52, borg--- via NANOG wrote:
Well, dont get me wrong, but this article is a bit wrong. Internet != CDNs. While this is true that CDNs host a lot of content these days and outage bring down a lot of sites down, this doesnt mean the whole Internet is like that.
I, for example didnt notice a thing when CloudFlare went down. If not sitting on some IRC channels where I heard moaning about it I would NOT know a thing that there is outage in progress ;) My stuff was working, stuff I cared was working..
The world is 8 billion people :-). Mark.
I am very concerned too about "the Internet monopolization". But not because of resiliency. Well, it is a problem, but not the biggest one. The much bigger problem is that almost all small sites have become dead during the last 10 years (I have seen a few publications with statistics). There is no Alexa 1M anymore. Every country has a small set of monopolies that dictate the rules in their favor. Sometimes the dictate is already outrageous. And when the government would come for the regulation, they would make things even worse, because monopolies already have weight for lobbying. Unfortunately, a monopoly is unstoppable without government. Eduard
-----Original Message----- From: Hank Nussbacher via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2025 11:29 To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> Subject: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience
https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet... resilience
Some may find this of interest.
Regards, Hank
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/5BZSAH 5Y2YBSQFO4VV2XYNU7GXN2A5EW/
No, it didnt as well. But I guess I live in the past with my attitude for this things... The battle is over because quantity wins over quality, no pride in engineering. Its all about money and paychecks... not about good usefull product/service. Im too old for that I guess.. ---------- Original message ---------- From: Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc> To: North American Network Operators Group <nanog@lists.nanog.org> Cc: borg@uu3.net Subject: Re: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 14:25:25 -0500 Doesn't have anything to do with big/small org size. Two+ decades of "why run this myself, I'll just use theirs" , combined with people assuming that the big dogs 'never go down' has gotten us here. Maybe this CF outage didn't touch anything you care about, but I bet the more recent AWS one did. On Sun, Nov 23, 2025 at 11:56˙˙AM borg--- via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
Indeed, spoken like a true bigboy... Small orgs should keep quiet.. I didnt noticed any problems w/ supplies here.. Anyway.. Keep centralizing boys... It will be good.. For your landlords..
EOF from my side..
---------- Original message ----------
From: J. Hellenthal <jhellenthal@dataix.net> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: borg@uu3.net, nanog@lists.nanog.org Subject: Re: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 08:50:27 -0600
Sadly your view of the "internet" is as small as a pea. IRC doesn't get people paid and things like salesforce being down produce logistical problems causing trucks not to move, delivering your goods to stores leaving you sitting there on IRC spreading peanut butter on whatever bread you have left with a plastic knife until it all clears up.
-- J. Hellenthal
The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
On Nov 23, 2025, at 06:53, borg--- via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
˙˙Well, dont get me wrong, but this article is a bit wrong. Internet != CDNs. While this is true that CDNs host a lot of content these days and outage bring down a lot of sites down, this doesnt mean the whole Internet is like that.
I, for example didnt notice a thing when CloudFlare went down. If not sitting on some IRC channels where I heard moaning about it I would NOT know a thing that there is outage in progress ;) My stuff was working, stuff I cared was working..
Regards, Borg
---------- Original message ----------
From: Hank Nussbacher via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> To: nanog@lists.nanog.org Cc: Hank Nussbacher <hank@efes.iucc.ac.il> Subject: How Consolidation is Eroding Internet Resilience Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 10:28:35 +0200
https://pulse.internetsociety.org/blog/how-consolidation-is-eroding-internet...
Some may find this of interest.
Regards, Hank
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/5BZSAH5Y...
_______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/DM232TJG... _______________________________________________ NANOG mailing list
https://lists.nanog.org/archives/list/nanog@lists.nanog.org/message/OV2MJA6P...
participants (10)
-
borg＠uu3.net -
Eliot Lear -
Hank Nussbacher -
J. Hellenthal -
Mark Tinka -
Mike Hammett -
Randy Bush -
Stephen Satchell -
Tom Beecher -
Vasilenko Eduard