On Thu, 3 Jul 2025 at 04:39, niels=nanog--- via NANOG <nanog@lists.nanog.org> wrote:
* Constantine A. Murenin [Thu 03 Jul 2025, 00:46 CEST]:
Why is the simple act of placing an item in a shopping cart a resource-driven event?
Tell me you don't know how modern e-commerce works without saying you don't know how modern e-commerce works.
Sometimes it takes an outsider to see the inefficiency in the process. The bottom line is that there's absolutely no justification for having captchas everywhere, and especially on ecommerce and other cacheable things. And as the quote goes: 'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'
Say you're a modern seller. You have widgets you're looking to sell. You have a certain number on hand and will need to order more in time to satisfy future demand.
The moment somebody places a widget in their shopping basket you make a reservation in the backend system so you know you're soon running out. People leaving shopping baskets just sitting around are an active drag on the JIT delivery process.
That's why some e-commerce websites will send you emails with discount coupons to incentivise you to make up your mind and order if you leave items in your shopping basket for too long.
That absolutely does make sense, but then why are you complaining about the bots placing the things in the cart? You can't have it both ways. * If it's expensive to place items in the cart, maybe make it cheaper? * If the cost is actually justified, how is it a problem that bots do it, too? Also, BTW, I kind of fail to see the business logic behind needing this info to re-order to avoid running out: * If people place items in the cart and buy right away, why would you need to reorder anything before anyone actually pays for something? How does it make any difference to reorder something a few minutes earlier than otherwise? * If people/bots place items in the cart, and never buy, how exactly is it justified to bother anyone with anything before they're able to do such a simple task, if the sale doesn't happen anyways, and no reordering is needed in the first place? Sorry, but something just doesn't add up! And how exactly do we get to a point that any captchas are required at any point? Either users order, or they don't. Why did you make it expensive for yourself to handle the case when they don't order? How exactly do the captchas help here? What makes you think actual real human users don't mind spending $1+ to solve each captcha? This is a classic example of the lack of ownership on all levels, where business requirements are misinterpreted and non-existing problems are subsequently created that now suddenly need to be urgently solved, without any sight of the original business statement that's being solved, and at a cost that is misrepresented to the owner of the store. (How exactly do you value the user having to waste 30 seconds to solve a captcha for each page at least once a day? I value it at $1 per each solve; BTW, I'm pretty certain the cost of this to bots is far LOWER than $1, with the $1 being the cost to actual, real users, in lost productivity.) Captchas are the biggest nuisance by far, and probably the biggest modern contributor to the global warming and lost productivity for everyone. C.